[NCUC-EC] South Africa project asking for support

Wed Oct 11 04:26:16 CEST 2017

Ok. So that's basically the opposite of my position. I *absolutely*
believe, as a matter of principle, that NCUC should support participation
in multiple languages, including smaller ones. I've been on the record for
years
<http://www.law-democracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/final-Internet.pdf#page=40>
as
an advocate for expanding outreach and content development to smaller
language groups.

But you just said, in your previous email, "NCUC will not have support
for multilingual
content anytime soon".

The reason why language has become part of the discussion is because, based
on the proposal you sent around, reaching out to speakers of smaller
languages is the *entire focus* of the project. So imagine the session is a
great success - and we get 25 new participants who are very keen to
participate in NCUC - and who only speak IsiXhosa and IsiNdebele (the
target groups).

If we can't support multilingual content... how do we accommodate their
participation in NCUC?

And if we can't accommodate their participation in NCUC... why are they a
target for NCUC outreach? And what's the value to NCUC other than as a
branding exercise?

I hate to be the one to pour cold water on this because, as I said, I
really support the project. If I worked at ISOC or Wikimedia or UNESCO I
would absolutely support funding this. But I'm just struggling to see the
angle for NCUC.

I look forward to hearing back.

Michael

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:13 PM, Renata Aquino Ribeiro <raquino at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I believe if Thato still wants to pursue this, he'll answer your questions.
>
> Meantime, I don't understand why the language issue became part of this
> discussion.
>
> The project is about content development, translation as a 2nd step and
> not for NCUC site.
>
> It is just a way to further exercise the reflection and discussion about a
> specific content.
>
> So, as I mentioned, there will be no foreign languages spoken in NCUC as a
> result of this.
>
> I sense, though, these fears of barbarism can not be calmed. So it's good
> we have them outlined so proposers know to steer clear of multilingualism
> in the future.
>
> Best,
>
> Renat
>
> Em 10 de out de 2017 9:57 PM, "farzaneh badii" <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>
> escreveu:
>
> Also section IV provides some provisions related to treasurer reporting
> (page 10)
>
> https://www.ncuc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/NCUC-Operati
> ng-Procedures-Sept-2017.pdf
>
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 8:49 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> not sure if you are directing your response to me. for translation, I
>> responded to Renata statement that we won't get translation support in
>> future. with regard to your question if that will help them to contribute
>> in NCUC and ICANN. I have mixed feelings about that.
>>
>>  for the financial situation, Milton as treasurer can respond to that.
>> Our only source of funding is coming from PIR on yearly basis (I think that
>> was indicated  in operating procedures?).
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>>
>> 2017-10-11 9:31 GMT+09:00 Michael Karanicolas <michael at law-democracy.org>
>> :
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think the issue with translation issue isn't just about our materials
>>> and such - it's about how IsiXhosa and IsiNdebele speakers are going
>>> to contribute meaningfully to NCUC, or be a part of our eco-system
>>> when we're not really equipped to support their engagement.
>>>
>>> I met Thato in Hyderabad as well as in Johannesburg - and he seems
>>> very sharp, and I like the idea of supporting his work and of reaching
>>> out to underserved language communities, but I'm really struggling
>>> with slotting this as an outreach event when there's no
>>> sustainability.
>>>
>>> Can we get a clearer picture of our financial situation, in terms of
>>> where the funding would come from? Are we sitting on a source of money
>>> that we're not utilizing, or is this part of a funds that's going to
>>> get refreshed at the end of the year, or what's our situation?
>>> Apologies for not knowing this myself, as I guess I should by this
>>> point.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 8:19 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > if I can comment:
>>> > - I think icannwiki is a not just platform but organization which is
>>> getting
>>> > funding from several sources already.
>>> > - with regard to translation, we did get that before when we made a
>>> request
>>> > to translation team in ICANN. we could translate our flyers to Hindi,
>>> Urdu
>>> > for Hyderabad meeting in addition to translation to UN languages.
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> >
>>> > Rafik
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2017-10-10 22:43 GMT+09:00 Renata Aquino Ribeiro <raquino at gmail.com>:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi
>>> >>
>>> >> Yes, the logo would be there
>>> >>
>>> >> I will explain a bit more what this project is because I guess it
>>> isn't
>>> >> clear
>>> >>
>>> >> 1) Group convenes and discusses how ICANN works and what are possible
>>> >> words that they could study, describe which would help them understand
>>> >> PDPs - or words someone asked them to describe
>>> >> (This is where I asked them to describe better NCUC, GDPR, RDS, RPM
>>> etc)
>>> >>
>>> >> 2) Group studies and describes these terms. Outcomes are registered in
>>> >> www.icannwiki.org
>>> >>
>>> >> 3) New round of studying and describing and translation to local
>>> languages
>>> >>
>>> >> ICANNWiki is an independent platform
>>> >>
>>> >> NCUC will receive a report to be published as post
>>> >>
>>> >> We can be very confident that NCUC will not have support for
>>> >> multilingual content anytime soon and there won't be follow up
>>> >> requests on multilingual support to NCUC esp. indigenous languages.
>>> >>
>>> >> This is an effort independently lead by local language advocates in
>>> >> sectors of ICANNWiki platform only
>>> >>
>>> >> Best,
>>> >>
>>> >> Renata
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Tatiana Tropina
>>> >> <tatiana.tropina at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > All,
>>> >> > I agree with Michael.
>>> >> > Could the proposal be tweaked to be more obviously beneficial for
>>> NCUC?
>>> >> > Can we use our logo at the event to advertise us or something?
>>> >> > Cheers
>>> >> > Tanya
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Tue 10. Oct 2017 at 13:42, Michael Karanicolas
>>> >> > <michael at law-democracy.org> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Hi,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Thanks very much for sending that along. It seems like an unusual
>>> fit
>>> >> >> to me, to be an outreach event, and a bit of a departure from what
>>> we
>>> >> >> do normally. Obviously we want to bring in people from under-served
>>> >> >> communities, and I think we all recognize that language is a huge
>>> >> >> challenge, but I'm not sure that NCUC has the follow through to
>>> >> >> capitalize on this. So - the material is translated into IsiXhosa
>>> and
>>> >> >> IsiNdebele - then what? There's still no platform for the
>>> recipients
>>> >> >> to engage with NCUC, since we don't have ongoing support for those
>>> >> >> languages, and we are unlikely to have it in the near term - so
>>> where
>>> >> >> does this lead? Am I missing something?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> That said - I guess it would ultimately depend on our budget
>>> >> >> situation. Do we work on a calendar year and, if so, do we have
>>> funds
>>> >> >> that are going to expire relatively soon if they're not used?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Michael
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 8:57 AM, Renata Aquino Ribeiro
>>> >> >> <raquino at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> > Hi
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > The outreach in Johannesburg was mainly organized voluntarily by
>>> >> >> > Thato
>>> >> >> > Mfikwe and now he is asking for a small amount of support for
>>> >> >> > outreach
>>> >> >> > and capacity building (USD 300, minimal is actually USD 500)
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > On our procedures document there is a description of a process
>>> for
>>> >> >> > this type of support
>>> >> >> > See section VI
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > https://www.ncuc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/NCUC-Operati
>>> ng-Procedures-Sept-2017.pdf
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > There were outreach events funded by NCUC before and reports are
>>> >> >> > published on NCUC blog periodically
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Best,
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Renata
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Michael Karanicolas
>>> >> >> > <michael at law-democracy.org> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> We're not a granting organization... are we?
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> Forgive me, as I'm new(ish) on the EC. Is there precedent to
>>> fund
>>> >> >> >> these kinds of projects?
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> Michael
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 10:00 PM, Renata Aquino Ribeiro
>>> >> >> >> <raquino at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> >>> Dear EC
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> I am forwarding you an email by Thato Mfikwe from South Africa
>>> >> >> >>> asking
>>> >> >> >>> for support for a local project.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Basically they will do a day marathon of writing about internet
>>> >> >> >>> policy
>>> >> >> >>> terms learned after ICANN59. In English and in local languages.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> The project already has support from ICANNwiki and ISOC Gauteng
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Given ISOC Gauteng partnered w/ NCUC for the event in
>>> Johannesburg
>>> >> >> >>> it
>>> >> >> >>> would be great if NCUC could sponsor the event too
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Even with a minimal amount (USD300), this partnership can be
>>> >> >> >>> consolidated and we can ask for the program to cover writing
>>> about
>>> >> >> >>> terms which are en vogue in NCUC policymaking efforts
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Deadline for this is (was) 10th Oct so please express your
>>> support
>>> >> >> >>> as
>>> >> >> >>> soon as possible
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Thank you
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> >> >> >>> From: Thato Mfikwe <mfikwentjatje at gmail.com>
>>> >> >> >>> Date: Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:23 AM
>>> >> >> >>> Subject: ISOC Gauteng Project proposal (Content development and
>>> >> >> >>> translation
>>> >> >> >>> To: raquino at gmail.com
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Hi Renata,
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Please find the attached proposal regarding the project we
>>> running
>>> >> >> >>> in
>>> >> >> >>> Mpumalanga and Eastern Cape rural areas of South Africa, I
>>> hope you
>>> >> >> >>> find all in order. Should you require that we amend our
>>> proposal to
>>> >> >> >>> meet available funding and support criterias, please let us
>>> know.
>>> >> >> >>> Apologies in the delay, we only have 2 weeks before
>>> implemetation
>>> >> >> >>> of
>>> >> >> >>> the 1st phase of the project, thuis a prompt response is
>>> required
>>> >> >> >>> to
>>> >> >> >>> speed up this process.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> We thought the project of this natture would be of interest to
>>> >> >> >>> players
>>> >> >> >>> in the IG space, since we need allthe help we can obtain to
>>> make it
>>> >> >> >>> a
>>> >> >> >>> success and please feel free to forward to relevant
>>> organisations
>>> >> >> >>> who
>>> >> >> >>> might find an interest in working with us on this exciting
>>> project.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> We will provide sponsors with proof of expenses on a monthly
>>> basis
>>> >> >> >>> and
>>> >> >> >>> ZACR has commited to the project in terms of human capital and
>>> >> >> >>> funding
>>> >> >> >>> that is yet to be finalised by end of this month. Should you
>>> need
>>> >> >> >>> more
>>> >> >> >>> information or set up an appointment around this project,
>>> please do
>>> >> >> >>> not hesitate to contact us, thanks.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> >>> NCUC-EC mailing list
>>> >> >> >>> NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
>>> >> >> >>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> NCUC-EC mailing list
>>> >> >> NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
>>> >> >> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> NCUC-EC mailing list
>>> >> NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
>>> >> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > NCUC-EC mailing list
>>> > NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
>>> > https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCUC-EC mailing list
>> NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCUC-EC mailing list
> NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCUC-EC mailing list
> NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-ec/attachments/20171010/00c68902/attachment.html>