[NCUC-DISCUSS] Fellowship Program
Martin Pablo Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent at gmail.com
Wed Nov 8 21:12:12 CET 2017
I know, that’s why I was suggesting it, and proposed a second email conversation…
Cheers,
Martín
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:10 PM, thomascovenant <thomascovenant at thomascovenant.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> you are free to start a new mail thread with specific points you want
> to address.
>
> Metrics, success, process etc. of the program you mention are indeed out
> of scope of this discussion - reviewing the program by NCUC also wasn't
> suggested at any point.
>
> BR,
> thomas
>
> * * *
> Dina Solveig Jalkanen
> thomascovenant
> Friendly geek in Amsterdam chaos
> https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/User:Thomascovenant <https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/User:Thomascovenant>
>
> On 08.11.2017 21:31, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
>> Ayden,
>> I am stating that this could be part of broader work, since Dina’s
>> concern is not personal, but affects many. So, of course we will all
>> help Dina to address this issue on her own right as she desires to, but
>> as a community, I am proposing to open a broader group to work this and
>> other issues in a coordinated and informed manner.
>>
>> Therefore, I encourage that, if anyone has doubts or concerns on this
>> program, we can start another email discussion and continue there to
>> work together. We can do questionnaire, gather data and draft our
>> points. Like we do with any other issue.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 8, 2017, at 4:21 PM, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com
>>> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Martín,
>>>
>>> I would respectfully suggest that we limit our conversation for now to
>>> the privacy issue that Dina has raised in relation to the fellowship
>>> programme. We can discuss other, broader issues with the fellowship
>>> programme too, but maybe off-list or at least under a different
>>> subject line. Personally, I have enough concerns with the programme to
>>> fill two books — however for now I think it is more productive that we
>>> focus our efforts on this very legitimate issue that Dina has raised?
>>> And to that end, Dina, if you decide to send your concerns through to
>>> ICANN's Chief Data Protection Officer and I can help in any way,
>>> please do reach out to me.
>>>
>>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>>
>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Privacy issues within Fellowship Program
>>>> Local Time: 8 November 2017 7:13 PM
>>>> UTC Time: 8 November 2017 19:13
>>>> From: mpsilvavalent at gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>>
>>>> To: Mamadou LO <alfamamadou at hotmail.com <mailto:alfamamadou at hotmail.com> <mailto:alfamamadou at hotmail.com <mailto:alfamamadou at hotmail.com>>>
>>>> Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>>,
>>>> NCUC Discuss <ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>> <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mamadou,
>>>> For the last couple of month I’ve participated in many conversations
>>>> were people wanted to know more about the metrics and process of the
>>>> Fellowship. Some had doubts or concerns, like the Privacy issue Dina
>>>> brought up. Instead of improvising here and there we could organize
>>>> information for those who want to look at it.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Martín
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 8, 2017, at 4:09 PM, Mamadou LO <alfamamadou at hotmail.com <mailto:alfamamadou at hotmail.com>
>>>>> <mailto:alfamamadou at hotmail.com <mailto:alfamamadou at hotmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Martin
>>>>> I'm alumni of the fellowship programme but I did not know/aware of
>>>>> those concerns you raised. Can you be more clear?
>>>>> Mamadou
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Envoyé depuis mon smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Message d'origine --------
>>>>> De : Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>
>>>>> <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>>>
>>>>> Date : 08/11/2017 18:57 (GMT+00:00)
>>>>> À : Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>>
>>>>> Cc : NCUC Discuss <ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>>> <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>>
>>>>> Objet : Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Privacy issues within Fellowship Program
>>>>>
>>>>> Concerns on different issues around the fellowship have raised among
>>>>> the community, Privacy is only one of those. This is an attempt to
>>>>> create and effective action toward those concerns, privacy included.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pretty straight forward!
>>>>>
>>>>> Martín
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 8, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry, Martin, but I am confused. How does any of this relate
>>>>>> to the original point that Dina raised, which was the lack of
>>>>>> awareness among ICANN staff re: privacy? Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Privacy issues within Fellowship Program
>>>>>>> Local Time: 8 November 2017 4:28 PM
>>>>>>> UTC Time: 8 November 2017 16:28
>>>>>>> From: mpsilvavalent at gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>> To: Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn at gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>> NCUC Discuss <ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>>>>> <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>>> In the hope of helping addressing this concerns, I’ve gathered a
>>>>>>> few links of material on the fellowship already public. I
>>>>>>> understand they are updating some things, like the privacy
>>>>>>> provision in the Terms and web stuff.
>>>>>>> Some metrics of the last 10 yeas can be found in the 2017 survey
>>>>>>> report as well. And I am confident that we could gather a
>>>>>>> questioner for the staff to answer, and eventually a letter of
>>>>>>> recommendations or comments. This could help level the information
>>>>>>> and clarify doubts, a good way to structure the issue and put
>>>>>>> forward an concrete action.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fellowship main page: https://www.icann.org/fellowshipprogram <https://www.icann.org/fellowshipprogram>
>>>>>>> <https://www.icann.org/fellowshipprogram <https://www.icann.org/fellowshipprogram>>
>>>>>>> Terms:
>>>>>>> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/terms-conditions-2012-02-25-en <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/terms-conditions-2012-02-25-en>
>>>>>>> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/terms-conditions-2012-02-25-en <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/terms-conditions-2012-02-25-en>>
>>>>>>> Selection criteria:
>>>>>>> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/fellowship-applicant-criteria-2016-09-08-en <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/fellowship-applicant-criteria-2016-09-08-en>
>>>>>>> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/fellowship-applicant-criteria-2016-09-08-en <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/fellowship-applicant-criteria-2016-09-08-en>>
>>>>>>> Selection Committee:
>>>>>>> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/committee-2012-02-25-en <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/committee-2012-02-25-en>
>>>>>>> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/committee-2012-02-25-en <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/committee-2012-02-25-en>>
>>>>>>> FAQs:
>>>>>>> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/fellowship-faqs-2015-07-10-en <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/fellowship-faqs-2015-07-10-en><https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/fellowship-faqs-2015-07-10-en <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/fellowship-faqs-2015-07-10-en>>
>>>>>>> 10 yeas survey report:
>>>>>>> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/icann-fellowship-program-10-year-survey-dprd-28jun17-en.pdf <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/icann-fellowship-program-10-year-survey-dprd-28jun17-en.pdf>
>>>>>>> <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/icann-fellowship-program-10-year-survey-dprd-28jun17-en.pdf <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/icann-fellowship-program-10-year-survey-dprd-28jun17-en.pdf>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Other part also might have some relevant data (you need to dive in
>>>>>>> a little to grasp the numbers):
>>>>>>> Financial
>>>>>>> reports: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/current-en <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/current-en>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There were some blog post as well:
>>>>>>> Part
>>>>>>> 1: https://www.icann.org/news/blog/the-fellowship-spirit-part-one-of-a-four-part-blog-series <https://www.icann.org/news/blog/the-fellowship-spirit-part-one-of-a-four-part-blog-series>
>>>>>>> Part 2: https://www.icann.org/news/blog/the-fellowship-spirit <https://www.icann.org/news/blog/the-fellowship-spirit>
>>>>>>> Part 3: https://www.icann.org/news/blog/the-fellowship-spirit-en <https://www.icann.org/news/blog/the-fellowship-spirit-en>
>>>>>>> Part
>>>>>>> 4: https://www.icann.org/news/blog/the-fellowship-spirit-0edb9f60-6898-4121-a0e3-5865c9a4106d <https://www.icann.org/news/blog/the-fellowship-spirit-0edb9f60-6898-4121-a0e3-5865c9a4106d>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ve seen many times around that a lot of the concerns on the
>>>>>>> fellowship are actually misinformation, weather the facts are not
>>>>>>> known or are wrong. And is very easy to build on those mistakes or
>>>>>>> half/trues to later find out the whole analysis has to be rebuilt,
>>>>>>> or becomes and ineffective action. So I would suggest we first try
>>>>>>> to scope the data on this, level our concepts so we can define
>>>>>>> concerns and eventually give an opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For instance, in evaluating the merit of the program we have to
>>>>>>> understand the initial goal, there is no use in assuming or
>>>>>>> improvising the goal of the program, is written and when measuring
>>>>>>> the success we should go back to it. We can also discuss if the
>>>>>>> current goal, met or not and by how much, is the goal we think is
>>>>>>> best. Again, flying ideas without actually going through this
>>>>>>> process are not helpful. "Scaling back the program", something
>>>>>>> I’ve heard a lot and personally might even agree, is a valid idea,
>>>>>>> but we should only recommend it if we fully understand the whole
>>>>>>> data and concepts, not just because we “feel” it, we have a strong
>>>>>>> intuition or it seems reasonable given what we know from other stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I volunteer to lead a group to review fellowship and other
>>>>>>> onboarding/outreach/capacity building programs, if that’s what
>>>>>>> NCUC/NCSG members are interested.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers to all,
>>>>>>> Martin Silva
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 8, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Glenn McKnight
>>>>>>>> <mcknight.glenn at gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com> <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another interesting document to read is from a few years ago when
>>>>>>>> they asked for community feedback and they did a comparison to
>>>>>>>> other fellowship program
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not sure where it is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As to the privacy stuff. I assume Siranush is still getting used
>>>>>>>> to the job and and she will work out these issues in due time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> G
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Glenn McKnight
>>>>>>>> NARALO Secretariat
>>>>>>>> mcknight.glenn at gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com> <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>> skype gmcknight
>>>>>>>> twitter gmcknight
>>>>>>>> 289-830 6259
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Chenai Chair <chrche001 at gmail.com <mailto:chrche001 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:chrche001 at gmail.com <mailto:chrche001 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Glenn! super useful to read this and reflect on the
>>>>>>>> fellowship process
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 2:36 PM, Glenn McKnight
>>>>>>>> <mcknight.glenn at gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com> <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here is the Fellowship survey I converted to a Ebook
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://online.fliphtml5.com/gnel/jjgd/ <http://online.fliphtml5.com/gnel/jjgd/>
>>>>>>>> <http://online.fliphtml5.com/gnel/jjgd/ <http://online.fliphtml5.com/gnel/jjgd/>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> G
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Glenn McKnight
>>>>>>>> NARALO Secretariat
>>>>>>>> mcknight.glenn at gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com> <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>> skype gmcknight
>>>>>>>> twitter gmcknight
>>>>>>>> 289-830 6259 <tel:(289)%20830-6259>
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 7:21 AM, Shreedeep Rayamajhi
>>>>>>>> <rayamajhishreedeep at gmail.com <mailto:rayamajhishreedeep at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:rayamajhishreedeep at gmail.com <mailto:rayamajhishreedeep at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think there should be some level of privacy to be
>>>>>>>> attained in regards while handling personal
>>>>>>>> information. People do give their information with
>>>>>>>> trust and it should be handled with care in terms of
>>>>>>>> the after the purposes is finished. It should be the
>>>>>>>> responsibility of the receiver to assure there is no
>>>>>>>> unauthorized use of the information.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> May be a process has to be initiated that after the
>>>>>>>> completion of the purpose the information is stopped
>>>>>>>> from passing on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Shreedeep Rayamajhi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 8, 2017 5:41 PM, "thomascovenant"
>>>>>>>> <thomascovenant at thomascovenant.org <mailto:thomascovenant at thomascovenant.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:thomascovenant at thomascovenant.org <mailto:thomascovenant at thomascovenant.org>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Ayden,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And I have noted programmes, such as the global
>>>>>>>> indigenous ambassador
>>>>>>>>> programme, have their application form on a
>>>>>>>> Google Form
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - You are correct. I have just joined the
>>>>>>>> Indigenous Program and we will
>>>>>>>> address this by the next application round.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +1 on other points made
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Great meeting you in person during ICANN60,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thomas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jalkanen Dina Solveig
>>>>>>>> * * *
>>>>>>>> Friendly geek in Amsterdam, happy FSFE and EFF member
>>>>>>>> https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/User:Thomascovenant <https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/User:Thomascovenant>
>>>>>>>> <https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/User:Thomascovenant <https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/User:Thomascovenant>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 08.11.2017 11:02, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I think it is reasonable to say that ICANN, as
>>>>>>>> an organisation, has no
>>>>>>>>> awareness of privacy or why it is important.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Indeed, the recently appointed Chief Data
>>>>>>>> Protection Officer has no
>>>>>>>>> background in privacy or data protection.
>>>>>>>> (Seriously.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And I have noted programmes, such as the global
>>>>>>>> indigenous ambassador
>>>>>>>>> programme, have their application form on a
>>>>>>>> Google Form where one can
>>>>>>>>> even read all of the candidate's applications,
>>>>>>>> including the candidate's
>>>>>>>>> address, if they so desire.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> None of this is acceptable Dina, and I would
>>>>>>>> encourage you to write to
>>>>>>>>> the CDPO, Daniel Halloran, to document this
>>>>>>>> incident.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We will have more recourses at our disposal
>>>>>>>> from next May when
>>>>>>>>> enforcement of GDPR is in effect to take this
>>>>>>>> complaint further, but for
>>>>>>>>> now, it is important we can show that we have
>>>>>>>> been repeatedly making
>>>>>>>>> ICANN the organisation aware of its failure to
>>>>>>>> protect the personal data
>>>>>>>>> that it collects and retains.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> —Ayden
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Privacy issues
>>>>>>>> within Fellowship Program
>>>>>>>>>> Local Time: 8 November 2017 8:25 AM
>>>>>>>>>> UTC Time: 8 November 2017 08:25
>>>>>>>>>> From: raquino at gmail.com <mailto:raquino at gmail.com> <mailto:raquino at gmail.com <mailto:raquino at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>> To: NCUC-discuss <ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The leakage of private information is indeed
>>>>>>>> an issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was in an associated program w/ the
>>>>>>>> Fellowship this time so did not
>>>>>>>>>> get the email that Dina mentioned.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I remember in previous editions of Fellowship
>>>>>>>> program, I discussed
>>>>>>>>>> basic privacy configurations - like telling
>>>>>>>> people how to protect an
>>>>>>>>>> online Google Spreadsheet. So there is a lack
>>>>>>>> also of staff, tools and
>>>>>>>>>> other provisions to protect managing fellows'
>>>>>>>> data.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think we need to go via an educational route
>>>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is an international group, fastly
>>>>>>>> organized and disorganized and
>>>>>>>>>> it may as well be that fellows have their own
>>>>>>>> data gathering
>>>>>>>>>> initiatives for social purposes or whatever.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The idea of a workshop or a discussion about
>>>>>>>> privacy sounds like a
>>>>>>>>>> good route.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Renata
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>
>>>>>>>> <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>
>>>>>>>> <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>
>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>
>>>>>>>> <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>
>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>
>>>>>>>> <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>
>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>
>>>>>>>> <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Chenai Chair
>>>>>>>> Research ICT Africa:Researcher
>>>>>>>> w:cchair at researchictafrica.net <mailto:cchair at researchictafrica.net>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:w%3Acchair at researchictafrica.net <mailto:3Acchair at researchictafrica.net>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'What is worth knowing?'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org> <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>
>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ncuc-discuss mailing list
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>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss <https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss>
>>
>
> --
> * * *
> Friendly geek in Amsterdam, happy FSFE and EFF member
> https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/User:Thomascovenant <https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/User:Thomascovenant>
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