[NCUC-DISCUSS] Session on termination of domains for hate speech at ICANN 60

Sun Aug 20 17:48:11 CEST 2017

Hi,

I also support this discussion taking place.

> And it might be a mildly dicey convo to have in the UAE, where I’d
> guess there will be ’security personnel’ roaming around...

- true and up for (mis)interpretation, indeed adding to the list of
other potential violations by any given human at any given time in the UAE.

Dina Solveig
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thomascovenant
Friendly geek in Amsterdam chaos, FSFE and EFF member
https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/User:Thomascovenant

On 19.08.2017 18:17, William Drake wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I don’t know what I think, which has never stopped me from posting
> before, so...
> 
> On the one hand, I agree with James that this is not about ICANN and the
> conversation would be more appropriate in e.g. the IGF.  I would
> especially be concerned if it got press and some people outside started
> to think that ICANN has some role and responsibility here.  There’s
> already been some crazy talk on Twitter etc. from the far right to that
> end, which we really don’t need, particularly after all the crazy talk
> about the IANA transition giving the Internet to the commies etc.
> 
> And it might be a mildly dicey convo to have in the UAE, where I’d guess
> there will be ’security personnel’ roaming around...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates_Anti-Discrimination_Law
>    ICANN Legal might have a view... 
> 
> On the other hand it’s an interesting and timely topic that has some
> connection to the governance of names, or at least to the management of
> companies that sell name-related services.    And there are obviously
> wrinkles to the story beyond whether GoDaddy, Google, Cloudfare, and the
> RU Center acted consistent with their TORs, or even the IRTP.  Since
> Internet speech is global and nazis and other violent extremists have
> strong crossborder connections, the fact that lots of countries
> including most industrialized democracies and many others have hate
> speech laws (however problematically worded) that ban advocating
> violence against particular groups may raise some questions, e.g. does
> the US 1st Amendment approach some here insist on trump (sorry) all
> others?  When these companies are under political pressure everywhere to
> take down ISIS material etc? And so on…
> 
> So…?
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On Aug 19, 2017, at 15:14, James Gannon <james at cyberinvasion.net
>> <mailto:james at cyberinvasion.net>> wrote:
>>
>> That's an entirely different conversation to the one about thit
>> ability of registrars to enforce their TOS.
>>
>> Also note no registry, RIR or indeed ICANN itself has been involved in
>> this specific issue 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 19 Aug 2017, at 13:21, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com
>> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi James,
>>>
>>> If we think less about Cloudflare and more about how the DNS is being
>>> used to determine who can and cannot disseminate knowledge and
>>> opinions, I think the conversation around which registries offer
>>> registrants the best level of protection is very relevant.
>>>
>>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>>
>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Session on termination of domains for
>>>> hate speech at ICANN 60
>>>> Local Time: 19 August 2017 1:13 PM
>>>> UTC Time: 19 August 2017 12:13
>>>> From: james at cyberinvasion.net <mailto:james at cyberinvasion.net>
>>>> To: David Cake <dave at davecake.net <mailto:dave at davecake.net>>,
>>>> Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org <mailto:jmalcolm at eff.org>>
>>>> ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>> <ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Being honest, I’m not sure of the relevance to ICANN here.
>>>>
>>>> If we were at a Cloudflare conference I would agree as noted there
>>>> is no process in that space.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> But in ICANN space, there is policy which is being followed to the
>>>> letter. There is no denial of access to infrastructure occurring
>>>> here. There are private companies refusing service, as is their
>>>> right, and ICANN policy on domain transfers within the 60 day window
>>>> being applied. I don’t see where the discussion in the ICANN sphere
>>>> is needed. No registry has blanket denied access to their registry,
>>>> no RIR has denied access to IP space, and ICANN has not issued any
>>>> policy edicts on the topic.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> I personally wouldn’t support the hosting of such a discussion, as
>>>> most of the unanswered questions exist outside the ICANN space and
>>>> thus this meeting wouldn’t be appropriate venue.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> *From:*Ncuc-discuss [mailto:ncuc-discuss-bounces at lists.ncuc.org] *On
>>>> Behalf Of *David Cake
>>>> *Sent:* 19 August 2017 03:49
>>>> *To:* Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org <mailto:jmalcolm at eff.org>>
>>>> *Cc:* ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Session on termination of domains for
>>>> hate speech at ICANN 60
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> I would support this discussion taking place. I find the NCSG agenda
>>>> is usually a bit more open, and NCUC agenda often pretty packed. 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>     On 18 Aug 2017, at 7:48 am, Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org
>>>>     <mailto:jmalcolm at eff.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Hello all,
>>>>
>>>>     EFF has just posted its thoughts on the GoDaddy and Google
>>>>     termination of the Daily Stormer's domain:
>>>>
>>>>     https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/08/fighting-neo-nazis-future-free-expression
>>>>
>>>>     This would be a timely topic to address in more detail at ICANN
>>>>     60.  I will be attending and would like to be able to find some
>>>>     time to talk about this and also about the recent EFF and Public
>>>>     Knowledge whitepaper "Which Internet registries offer the best
>>>>     protection for domain owners?
>>>>     <https://www.eff.org/wp/which-internet-registries-offer-best-protection-domain-owners>".
>>>>
>>>>     What are the avenues for holding such a presentation?  Is there
>>>>     already a block of time for NCSG where this would fit in, or
>>>>     should a separate session be requested?  If so can anyone point
>>>>     me to the information about how to do this?  Sorry, I'm a little
>>>>     behind on the logistics of ICANN meetings because I seldom
>>>>     attend in person.
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     -- 
>>>>
>>>>     Jeremy Malcolm
>>>>
>>>>     Senior Global Policy Analyst
>>>>
>>>>     Electronic Frontier Foundation
>>>>
>>>>     https://eff.org <https://eff.org/>
>>>>
>>>>     jmalcolm at eff.org <mailto:jmalcolm at eff.org>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>     Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>     :: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>     Public key: https://www.eff.org/files/2016/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt
>>>>
>>>>     PGP fingerprint: 75D2 4C0D 35EA EA2F 8CA8 8F79 4911 EC4A EDDF 1122
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     Ncuc-discuss mailing list
>>>>     Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>>>     https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>
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> 
> 
> ***********************************************
> William J. Drake
> International Fellow & Lecturer
>   Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
>   University of Zurich, Switzerland
> william.drake at uzh.ch
> <mailto:william.drake at uzh.ch> (direct), wjdrake at gmail.com
> <mailto:wjdrake at gmail.com> (lists),
>   www.williamdrake.org <http://www.williamdrake.org>
> ************************************************
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