[NCUC-DISCUSS] Session on termination of domains for hate speech at ICANN 60

Sat Aug 19 17:17:29 CEST 2017

Hi

I don’t know what I think, which has never stopped me from posting before, so...

On the one hand, I agree with James that this is not about ICANN and the conversation would be more appropriate in e.g. the IGF.  I would especially be concerned if it got press and some people outside started to think that ICANN has some role and responsibility here.  There’s already been some crazy talk on Twitter etc. from the far right to that end, which we really don’t need, particularly after all the crazy talk about the IANA transition giving the Internet to the commies etc.

And it might be a mildly dicey convo to have in the UAE, where I’d guess there will be ’security personnel’ roaming around... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates_Anti-Discrimination_Law    ICANN Legal might have a view... 

On the other hand it’s an interesting and timely topic that has some connection to the governance of names, or at least to the management of companies that sell name-related services.    And there are obviously wrinkles to the story beyond whether GoDaddy, Google, Cloudfare, and the RU Center acted consistent with their TORs, or even the IRTP.  Since Internet speech is global and nazis and other violent extremists have strong crossborder connections, the fact that lots of countries including most industrialized democracies and many others have hate speech laws (however problematically worded) that ban advocating violence against particular groups may raise some questions, e.g. does the US 1st Amendment approach some here insist on trump (sorry) all others?  When these companies are under political pressure everywhere to take down ISIS material etc? And so on…

So…?

Bill

> On Aug 19, 2017, at 15:14, James Gannon <james at cyberinvasion.net> wrote:
> 
> That's an entirely different conversation to the one about thit ability of registrars to enforce their TOS.
> 
> Also note no registry, RIR or indeed ICANN itself has been involved in this specific issue 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 19 Aug 2017, at 13:21, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Hi James,
>> 
>> If we think less about Cloudflare and more about how the DNS is being used to determine who can and cannot disseminate knowledge and opinions, I think the conversation around which registries offer registrants the best level of protection is very relevant.
>> 
>> Best wishes, Ayden
>> 
>> 
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Session on termination of domains for hate speech at ICANN 60
>>> Local Time: 19 August 2017 1:13 PM
>>> UTC Time: 19 August 2017 12:13
>>> From: james at cyberinvasion.net <mailto:james at cyberinvasion.net>
>>> To: David Cake <dave at davecake.net <mailto:dave at davecake.net>>, Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org <mailto:jmalcolm at eff.org>>
>>> ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org> <ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Being honest, I’m not sure of the relevance to ICANN here.
>>> If we were at a Cloudflare conference I would agree as noted there is no process in that space.
>>>  
>>> But in ICANN space, there is policy which is being followed to the letter. There is no denial of access to infrastructure occurring here. There are private companies refusing service, as is their right, and ICANN policy on domain transfers within the 60 day window being applied. I don’t see where the discussion in the ICANN sphere is needed. No registry has blanket denied access to their registry, no RIR has denied access to IP space, and ICANN has not issued any policy edicts on the topic.
>>>  
>>> I personally wouldn’t support the hosting of such a discussion, as most of the unanswered questions exist outside the ICANN space and thus this meeting wouldn’t be appropriate venue.
>>>  
>>> From: Ncuc-discuss [mailto:ncuc-discuss-bounces at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss-bounces at lists.ncuc.org>] On Behalf Of David Cake
>>> Sent: 19 August 2017 03:49
>>> To: Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org <mailto:jmalcolm at eff.org>>
>>> Cc: ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org <mailto:ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Session on termination of domains for hate speech at ICANN 60
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I would support this discussion taking place. I find the NCSG agenda is usually a bit more open, and NCUC agenda often pretty packed. 
>>>  
>>> David
>>>  
>>> On 18 Aug 2017, at 7:48 am, Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org <mailto:jmalcolm at eff.org>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> EFF has just posted its thoughts on the GoDaddy and Google termination of the Daily Stormer's domain:
>>> 
>>> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/08/fighting-neo-nazis-future-free-expression <https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/08/fighting-neo-nazis-future-free-expression>
>>> 
>>> This would be a timely topic to address in more detail at ICANN 60.  I will be attending and would like to be able to find some time to talk about this and also about the recent EFF and Public Knowledge whitepaper "Which Internet registries offer the best protection for domain owners? <https://www.eff.org/wp/which-internet-registries-offer-best-protection-domain-owners>".
>>> 
>>> What are the avenues for holding such a presentation?  Is there already a block of time for NCSG where this would fit in, or should a separate session be requested?  If so can anyone point me to the information about how to do this?  Sorry, I'm a little behind on the logistics of ICANN meetings because I seldom attend in person.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jeremy Malcolm
>>> Senior Global Policy Analyst
>>> Electronic Frontier Foundation
>>> https://eff.org <https://eff.org/>
>>> jmalcolm at eff.org <mailto:jmalcolm at eff.org>
>>>  
>>> Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161
>>>  
>>> :: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::
>>>  
>>> Public key: https://www.eff.org/files/2016/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt <https://www.eff.org/files/2016/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt>
>>> PGP fingerprint: 75D2 4C0D 35EA EA2F 8CA8 8F79 4911 EC4A EDDF 1122
>>> 
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>>> 
>>>  
>> 
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***********************************************
William J. Drake
International Fellow & Lecturer
  Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ
  University of Zurich, Switzerland
william.drake at uzh.ch (direct), wjdrake at gmail.com (lists),
  www.williamdrake.org
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