[NCUC-DISCUSS] NCUC French translation project [was Chinese Translation Project]

Wed Mar 18 08:41:14 CET 2015

Troisième.

*Jean Guillon*
www.gTLD.club <http://www.gtld.club>
*Mobile*: +33.631109837

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 10:06 PM, Nicolas Adam <nickolas.adam at gmail.com>
wrote:

>  This is a more complex question than meets the eyes ;)
>
> There is probably 3 ways to go about it.
>
> À propos de ICANN
> À propos d'ICANN
> À propos de l'ICANN
>
> and I guess the last one is the one I liked the least. But I'm more than
> willing to go with it though.
>
> It is true that we commonly say l'ONU, and that we have used the *l'*
> most everywhere else when it comes to International orgs. However, it's
> sometimes wrong. And more often than we might think.
>
> L*'élision* consiste, en règle générale, à remplacer par une apostrophe
> une des voyelles finales "a, e, i" d'un mot, lorsqu'il ce mot est suivi
> d'un autre commençant par une voyelle "a, e, i, o, u" ou commençant par un
> " h " muet.
>
>
> However, we do not think about ICANN (at least I don't) as "La ICANN" or
> "Le ICANN" that we could strip that a or that e and replace it with an
> **'**.
>
> For me, it's more of a "de ICANN" situation, as in "le problème de ICANN
> est que bla bla" and not "le problème de la ICANN ..." (where you would
> have two *déterminants* in front of the word) and that's why I
> abbreviated it like I did, using the above rule. In essence, I determined
> that the sentenced to be shortened by the *élision* was
>
> 1) À propos de ICANN
>
> and not
>
> 2) À propos de la ICANN
>
>
> So that was one grammatical reason. But a grammatical reason that hinges
> fully on the first determination being right (a determination that could be
> challenged: it *is* possible to have "de la" in front of a word: "de la
> tarte"). So the determination itself seems to hinge on what is the most
> appropriate word category for ICANN. Is it like a pie or more like
> Internet? Notice, not the Internet.
>
> So the reason ceases to be solely grammatical and becomes logical and
> relates to a category mistake that is often made with many process or
> phenomenon that are (wrongly, IMO) thing-ified (reified).
>
> I may have been too polluted by English (please take no offense, I love
> Poe's idiom), but for the same reason I do not feel it right to say "The
> ICANN is ..." and that it sounds better to say "ICANN is", for instance;
> and for the same reason that it sounds better to say "UNICEF is" rather
> than "The UNICEF is ...", I feel it it is ugly form on top of bad
> philosophy to emphasize a reified (thing-ified) outcome, for some words
> referring to processes and phenomena.
>
> Yes, English uses "The UN ..." quite a bit when it comes to the United
> Nations. I have no idea why and I'll grant that it almost feels wrong today
> to say "UN is ...". I feel this form ("... the UN ...") is a wrong that
> will endure because it has, basically. But at the same time it doesn't look
> like we are going there with (the) ICANN or (the) UNICEF ...
>
> I think that logically, it is a category mistake, the same that many
> people make when they say "*the* Internet" (or, its French equivalent,
> "l'Internet"). Internet is not a thing, and language shouldn't thing-ified
> it. Internet is a process, an emerging phenomenon. So is ICANN!
>
> So ... the fact that ICANN's first letter means, precisely, Internet, the
> same word people so often wrongly use a "the" in front of, kinds of stack
> on that first determination on which the grammatical rules is then applied.
>
> When we use the "ONU" acronym, it is the translation of the UN acronym,
> and it stands for "Organisation des Nations Unies". The word "Organisation"
> calls for the l' in a way that seems impossible to resist, but I would
> argue that sometimes, it is indeed wrong to think
>
> "la mission de la ONU"
>
> and that we should have probably thought
>
> "la mission de ONU"
>
> and that, as a result, we should have probably said "la mission d'ONU"
> instead of "la mission de l'ONU".
>
> But I am well aware that I will not find that "correct" élision anywhere
> and that usage has deeply ingrained "de l'ONU".
>
> I wouldn't make a case for ceasing to use l'ONU, you know. But I would
> resist (as I have in the past) any attempt by proofreaders to make me
> change ICANN into l'ICANN *in a personal text of mine*. This not being a
> personal text of mine, I will go with whatever you think is best. I guess I
> felt like I would preemptively right a soon to be aesthetical wrong :) and
> you caught me red handed in language activism ;)
>
> Cheers
>
> Nicolas
>
> On 17/03/2015 9:56 AM, Mathias HOUNGBO wrote:
>
> Hello Nicolas
>
> why you write "À propos d'ICANN" and not "À propos de l'ICANN" ?
>
> we said "À propos de l'ONU"  here http://www.un.org/fr/aboutun/
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> "And then God said Noah make me a backup I need to format"
> "Mefies toi de la médiocrité, c'est la moisissure de l'esprit"
>
> --
> Made in Bénin - http://mathias.houngbo.net
> Président ONG IGBANet - http://www.igbanet.org/
> System and Network Administrator at BCEAO Bénin
> CTO & Co-Founder at STARSOFT INFORMATIQUE
>
>
>
> Le 13/03/2015 20:05, Nicolas Adam a écrit :
>
> Here is the first half, which is the most i could do today.
>
> I send it right now because I won't be able to work more on it before
> Monday night, so if someone else wanted to do some work on it then they can
> do so without redoing what I just did. Since there is quite a bit of
> neologism that has arisen around Internet Governance, and translating them
> with equivalents (with the view that they stay stable) isn't always a
> straightforward process, don't hesitate to discuss the choices I made with
> me.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Nicolas
>
>
>
> On 13/03/2015 11:34 AM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>
> Huguenot... we bailed out for England so long ago we are rusty! I must
> admit it was embarrassing when I lived in Quebec, where folks are not
> taught much history of those massacres, and did not understand the
> explanation.  You, on the other hand, have such an english name....?
> Suppose we take the text in word and divide it up?  I have plunked the
> online version into word, attached.
> cheers Stephanie
> PS some of these expressions must have already been translated, anybody
> know which document would be easiest to follow?  I dont fancy dredging
> through meeting transcripts if I can avoid it...
> On 2015-03-13 10:57, Nicolas Adam wrote:
>
> Ma langue maternelle est le français. I can help with the vetting and
> writing. You have french names Stéphanie Pérrin ;)
>
> Nicolas
>
> On 13/03/2015 10:29 AM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>
> Yes we do, I am not a native speaker but can do a rough translation which
> we could have vetted by a francophone.
> Stephanie Perrin
>
> On 2015-03-13 4:04, Arsène Tungali wrote:
>
> This is a great news.
> We may need to think of French translation as well. Do we have french
> speakers in the NCUC?
>
> 2015-03-13 6:44 UTC+02:00, Jia He <hejia925 at gmail.com>
> <hejia925 at gmail.com>:
>
> Dear All,
> Yes,  this idea is great. I have a face-to-face conversation with Peter
> this morning . For the brochure translation, we can divide the task into
> two parts. each of our both can translate a half , then we invite the
> experts in CCTEAG (Chinese Community Translation Expert Advisory Group) to
> Check it. CCTEAG is organized by my academy, so it is easy to connect with
> those experienced experts who participate in ICANN meeting for many times.
> Meanwhile, those experts can make sure the words we translated is in the
> right way.
>
> We will see the Chinese NCUC brochure in Argentina.
>
> Regards,
> Jia
>
>
>
>
> 2015-03-13 0:17 GMT+08:00 Amr Elsadr <aelsadr at egyptig.org>
> <aelsadr at egyptig.org>:
>
> Peter,
>
> This sounds fantastic. Exactly the sort of work a regional representative
> on the EC should be undertaking!! The best of luck to you and Jia on your
> endeavour.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Amr
>
> On Mar 12, 2015, at 4:37 PM, PeterGreen <seekcommunications at hotmail.com>
> <seekcommunications at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hello NCUCers,
>
> As the Asian/Pacific Representative on the Executive Committee, I would
> like to take this opportunity to formally announce that we are launching a
> "*NCUC
> Chinese Translation Project*".
>
> In this Project, we will translate NCUC materials into Chinese, enabling
> more Chinese to be involved in our Constituency,  to that extent to
> commit
> to the most diversified Constituency within ICANN community in terms of
> language.
>
> This Project will be taken by a translation team under the Department of
> International Affairs and Policy Analysis of China Organizational Name
> Administration Center (CONAC) - my home institution, together with my
> Chinese Colleague Jia He who recently joined NCUC.
>
> Firstly, we will start by translating NCUC Brochure, which is currently
> written in Enligh and Spanish, available at
> http://www.ncuc.org/brochure/
> .
>
> After that we will  tranlate other materials into Chinese according to an
> EC scheduled priorities list (which is to be determined).
>
> It is aimed that we could circulate Chinese vesion NCUC Brochures during
> ICANN 53 to be held in Buenos Aires in late June.
>
> In launching this thread, hope more NCUCers who would like to join in
> other kind of language tranlation work take up a similar initiative.
>
> Thanks very much for your attention.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Zhang Zuan / Peter Green
>
>
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