[NCUC-DISCUSS] Expanding Scope of ICANN

Mon Oct 28 18:56:19 CET 2013

And BTW, you are wrong ... perhaps you were in a different court ...

https://www.eff.org/press/releases/federal-judge-allows-effs-nsa-mass-spying-case-proceed

-J

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Marc Perkel <marc at churchofreality.org>wrote:

>  I'm not a lawyer but I have extensive legal experience. You can't sue the
> USG because they claim State Secrets Immunity and the judge dismisses the
> case. I have been in court and watch it happen as the EFF tried to do just
> that.
>
>
> On 10/28/2013 10:32 AM, Jorge Amodio wrote:
>
>
> I'm not a lawyer and qualified to judge if it is illegal or not, are you ?
> If so, just sue the USG.
>
>  -J
>
>
>  On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Marc Perkel <marc at churchofreality.org>wrote:
>
>>  What the USG is doing is highly illegal. However because the president
>> and congress choose to ignore the constitution they can get away with it.
>> And we have no right to inflict ourselves on the rest of the world.
>>
>>
>> On 10/28/2013 10:18 AM, Jorge Amodio wrote:
>>
>>
>> The NSA is a product of the USG, the officials of the USG gave the NSA
>> the mandate and funding to do what they have been doing for ages, I hardly
>> believe that ICANN is even close to be the right organization to tackle
>> that issue.
>>
>>  If you are a US Citizen, call your Senators/Representatives and express
>> your opinion, and put pressure on the big pockets that fund the lobbying
>> apparatus in Washington DC so they change the agenda accordingly.
>>
>>  Protocol Names and Numbers have NOTHING to do with the NSA, so it is
>> not in the scope of ICANN to fix ANYTHING related to it.
>>
>>  -J
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Marc Perkel <marc at churchofreality.org>wrote:
>>
>>> I think ICANN needs to increase its scope. I think ICANN needs to become
>>> a UN alternative forum to fill a vacuum to address issues like the NSA
>>> spying. If ICANN doesn't do it - who will?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/27/2013 11:01 PM, Dan Krimm wrote:
>>>
>>>> To the extent that Fadi is trying to address Internet Governance
>>>> generally
>>>> (forgive me if I am reading too much into his actions?), that would
>>>> seem to
>>>> be out of scope, regardless of whether ICANN/IANA and general-IG both
>>>> would
>>>> benefit from internationalization.
>>>>
>>>> As for multistakeholderism, in principle this all sounds great, but in
>>>> practice it seems to have fallen far short of its intended potential.
>>>>  In
>>>> practice is where the rubber hits the road, and in practice MSism at
>>>> ICANN
>>>> has recently fallen prey to ad hoc action when some "more equal than
>>>> others" stakeholders decide the outcome is not to their liking.  They
>>>> apparently start to think along the lines of "God is not Mocked."
>>>>
>>>> I see MSism as still an experimental work-in-progress, hardly with all
>>>> the
>>>> bugs worked out, and not necessarily "ready for prime time" in terms of
>>>> overall world governance.  The only reason it has worked as free from
>>>> collapse at ICANN as it has up to now, I think, is that the big Powers
>>>> That
>>>> Be in the world (nations and big corporations) hadn't really seen ICANN
>>>> as
>>>> all that meaningful in their general scheme of things.  The more
>>>> important
>>>> ICANN's actions become, the more the big powers will pound on it to
>>>> shape
>>>> it to their desires.  I think you've only seen the bare beginning of
>>>> this
>>>> in the ad hoc shenanigans of the last few years.  Just beginning to rev
>>>> up
>>>> the engines.  MSism has not reached up out of the play-pen to play with
>>>> the
>>>> Big Boys yet, as far as I can tell, and it remains to be seen how it
>>>> will
>>>> fare if it is brought up to the Big Time.
>>>>
>>>> That's a big risk, IMHO.  Be careful what you ask for, you might get it.
>>>> And if it doesn't turn out how you expected, what then?  This whole
>>>> MSism
>>>> experiment is a huge exercise in unintended consequences (in the gap
>>>> between theory and practice), if you ask me.  It's worth doing the
>>>> experiment, but I'd be more comfortable if the experiment were closer to
>>>> completion before trying it out on anything *really* important.  I don't
>>>> see it anywhere near that point, yet.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the author alone
>>>> and do
>>>> not necessarily reflect any position of the author's employer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 12:59 AM -0400 10/28/13, avri doria wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> In terms of legitimacy, isn't one of the topics that needs to be
>>>>> explored
>>>>> internationalisation of ICANN, and IANA? Isn't that a topic at the top
>>>>> of
>>>>> the list? That seems to be in scope.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the ICANN Board seems to be on-board as Fadi was meeting with a
>>>>> subset
>>>>> of them (including the Chair) and AC/SO leadership every morning. I
>>>>> wasn't
>>>>> in the meetings, and don't know who the rep from gnso was since
>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>> wasn't there, so don't know what the level of buy in was, but I heard
>>>>> no
>>>>> complaints on the ground.
>>>>>
>>>>> So whatever we might say about scope creep Fadi is not being renegade.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for scope creep Fadi and the leaders of the other I* seem to be
>>>>> acting
>>>>> in coordinated faction, so it is within their scope, and would seem to
>>>>> be
>>>>> in scope for any one of them to act on I*'s behalf in organizational
>>>>> talks with governments on a meeting planning.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, in this case at least, I see no fundamental problem of overreach by
>>>>> Fadi.  And, whether he fully understand what it means, he seems to be
>>>>> carrying the banner of multistakeholderism into these discussions.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, at least this once, I am not ready to join in Fadi-attack.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> avri
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from a T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Ncuc-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org
>>>>> http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss
>>>>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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