for Debbie: Explaining votes made while representing NCSG while on GNSO Council

[Alain Berranger]

Dan, thanks see below ----

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Dan Krimm <dan at musicunbound.com> wrote:

> One may of course respect a diversity of views, but when a single policy
> requires implementation according to the principles of a single view,
> there needs to be some resolution of diversity to (if possible) a
> consensus position.
>

Agree

>
> I guess then it would help to define what "as much as possible" means --
> to me that sounded like "at any cost" (including the unfounded impugning
> of innocents, since that inevitably will happen if you want to address
> *all* malfeasance, however defined).
>

Yes

>

If what you really meant was "as much as possible without stomping on the
> rights of innocents without power" then I would begin to agree with you in
> principle, though the devil is in the details because there is a trade-off
> required here.
>
> ...Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt...


> The fundamental question is: how do we want to arrange that trade-off?
> That is to say, we want to reduce cybercrime *while also* protecting free
> speech.  To express only one half of this trade-off is to miss the real
> issue before us, because we cannot have both in perfect degree.
>
> The fundamental difference of opinion here seems to be which goal has
> priority, security or expression?  Ideally we would want "balance" here,
> but until we can find that balance, how do we proceed in the near term?
> Personally, I side with Wendy.
>
> Agreed again on the balancing act... I think however that a number of
reasonable steps can be taken to take down cybercriminals without hurting a
single innocent person. We can establish basic and follow principles to
reduce web-based crime. I am convinced that governments-cybercrime hackers
that collaborate in certain countries to their mutual benefits actually hurt
many innocent stand-byers.

Best, Alain


> Best,
> Dan
>
>
> --
> Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the author alone and
> do not necessarily reflect any position of the author's employer.
>
>
>
> On Fri, October 14, 2011 2:15 pm, Alain Berranger wrote:
> > Hi Dan, we both referred to a balance... I did not say at any cost... I
> > spoke of a spectrum... and respecting diverse opinions along that
> > spectrum.
> > I respect your point of view. I think we need to find a way to minimize
> > cybercrime... and make it harder for certain countries to enable the
> > hosting
> > of cybercriminals.
> >
> > Best, Alain
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Dan Krimm <dan at musicunbound.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Just to take this point on the merits:
> >>
> >> On Fri, October 14, 2011 12:43 pm, Alain Berranger wrote:
> >> > Can we all agree that there is malfeasance on the Web and that it
> >> should
> >> > be brought down as often and as much as possible?
> >>
> >> Not necessarily.
> >>
> >> One of the enduring realities of any real-world law enforcement regime
> >> is
> >> that perfection is not an option.  Either you are going to impugn
> >> innocents or you are going to let malfeasance slip through, or some
> >> combination of both.  The question is one of balance (how many innocents
> >> will you impugn in order to catch how many malefactors?), and usually
> >> the
> >> answer to that in a modern democratic system is called "due process"
> >> (and
> >> may involve ancillary principles like "innocent until proven guilty"
> >> etc.).
> >>
> >> The statement above constitutes a maximalist policy at the extreme,
> >> where
> >> innocents will often get caught in the net, creating what might be
> >> considered "unintended consequences" -- or even worse, it may provide
> >> tools to those who hold power to abuse law enforcement privileges and
> >> actively harass innocents, perhaps for political purposes.  The
> >> innocents
> >> that will be most affected by this are the ones without power (i.e.,
> >> without money, or friends with money).
> >>
> >> We should be seeking to extend these principles to the Internet, not to
> >> undermine them there.
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the author alone and
> >> do not necessarily reflect any position of the author's employer.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
> > Member, Board of Directors, CECI,
> > http://www.ceci.ca<
> http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/>
> > Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business,
> www.schulich.yorku.ca
> > Trustee, GKP Foundation, www.globalknowledgepartnership.org
> > Vice Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, http://npoc.org/
> > O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
> > Skype: alain.berranger
> >
>



--
Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
Member, Board of Directors, CECI,
http://www.ceci.ca<http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/>
Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, www.schulich.yorku.ca
Trustee, GKP Foundation, www.globalknowledgepartnership.org
Vice Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, http://npoc.org/
O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
Skype: alain.berranger
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