[NCUC-DISCUSS] Hold us accountable

[Renata Aquino Ribeiro]

Dear Tracy

i have received many messages recently about respect and this message about
standing up for it I believe represents a collective mindset of NCUC, as
you can see is negligible the people who fall for the contrary behavior. So
thank you very much for speaking out.

As some of our exchanges were public on Twitter, I did not name you to
point out with any ill intentions, as the response implies.

In fact, I find it interesting that implication about an open and public
discussion.

I am glad you are now with us and I`m sure you`ll contribute greatly to
NCUC work.

I will clarify that nothing on NCUC`s work is about harming each other,
with knives or words. You can count on it.

Best,

Renata



On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 11:37 PM, Tracy Kadesa <kadesatracy at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear  Farzaneh,
>
> I hope this email finds you well !
>
> In light of the conversation up there, since my name has been mentioned ,
> I would like to explain as follows;
>
> 1. As a newcomer, I wasn't clear on approval procedures and since I was
> applying to NCUC, I reached out to NCUC chair who was very helpful.(It did
> not occur to me that this was wrong)
>
>
> 2.  NCUC chair then introduced me to yourselves(you and Maryam)  through
> an email conversation , the email conversation was very cordial and you
> explained that approval  takes a month. I am very thankful for how fast you
> responded;
>
>
> *3. On 18th March 2018, NCUC Chair made a polite  inquiry after I had
> asked her what my membership status was , since 1 month had lapsed
> already.( *I would have done the same if I was in NCUC chair's position).
>
>   I am looking at that  particular email thread right  now,and honestly I
> do not see any form of pressure from the NCUC chair.
>
>   Your response was very warm and  both  you and NCUC chair have been
> accessible in terms of   responding to queries here and there after my
> approval.
>
>
> 4. I believe that NCUC chair doesn't just come out to randomly advocate
> for people whose interests are not in line with NCUC  because that was not
> the case in my situation.(here I am referring to Ayden's email highlighted
> below)
>
>
> *5. Lastly ,I believe in RESPECT and the conversation that I have
> highlighted down here is just plain disrespectful and seems  like a
> personal attack .That's not  how to handle another human being .Can't
> people disagree cordially? Aren't there any standards in this place?isn't
> there humanity in this place?  how do we advocate for free and open
> internet  if we can not respect our team members?As civil society , I do
> not know how people can  stay silent when such behavior is displayed. *
>
>
> *THIS IS VERY WRONG! 👇*
>
>
> "Ayden Férdeline icann at ferdeline.com via
> <https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1311182?hl=en> listserv.syr.edu
> Jul 10 (1 day ago)
> to NCSG-DISCUSS
> Farzaneh,
>
> Thank you for documenting this.
>
> This is very troubling behaviour on the part of the NCUC Chair.
>
> *It is outrageous that the NCUC Chair would seek to put pressure on you to
> approve applications for membership who do not fulfil our membership
> criteria. *We are here to defend non-commercial uses and users of the
> Domain Name System, and must be careful not to allow those who do not
> support a free and open Internet to use our platform in order to push
> different priorities.
>
> *I will not respond to Renata's other comments in this thread, as they are
> immature and exemplify the poor judgement that has come to be the hallmark
> of her tenure as NCUC Chair*.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ayden "
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Tracy Kadesa,
> LL.B ,University of Nairobi.
> Dip KSL
> tracykadesa.wordpress.com
> legalwalk.wordpress.com
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 5:21 PM, Mueller, Milton L <milton at gatech.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Peter Green was elected to the NCUC Executive Committee from Asia region
>> some time ago, probably Heng Zhou got it confused with NCSG chair. No big
>> deal. Let’s be nice to each other.
>>
>>
>>
>> --MM
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ncuc-discuss [mailto:ncuc-discuss-bounces at lists.ncuc.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *socata
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 11, 2018 4:29 AM
>> *To:* james at cyberinvasion.net; Farell FOLLY <farell at benin2point0.org>
>> *Cc:* ncuc-discuss <ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Hold us accountable
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Farell,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your nice word. And to James, thanks for your clarification.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would say that I had no idea about what Peter was doing in the past few
>> years, and I didn't care, honestly. All I know is that it is not easy for
>> the Chinese community member, like Peter, to participate ICANN discussions.
>> The meeting always was hold in midnight for us, and there always connection
>> problems about Google service due to GFW. In addition, few colleagues may
>> understand you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Even if Farzaneh may sometimes make some mistakes, I would like to say
>> that I can understand that, that is the whole point I want to say.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Zhou Heng
>>
>> Ph.d Candidate
>>
>> Renmin University of China
>>
>>
>> 在 2018-07-11 03:05:07，Farell FOLLY <farell at benin2point0.org> 写道：
>>
>> Dear James,
>>
>>
>>
>> If we think that somebody made a mistake, we can simply correct (s)he
>> either privately (recommended by Netiquette best practices) or publicly so
>> that nobody else makes the same mistake again.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t think that this kind of irony will really serve the purpose of
>> our community.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> @__f_f__
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards
>> ____________________________________
>>
>> Ekue (Farell) FOLLY
>> Technology Champion & Chapter Head
>>
>> Africa 2.0 Foundation.
>>
>> www.africa2point0.org
>>
>> linkedin.com/in/farellf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10 Jul 2018, at 17:59, James Gannon <james at cyberinvasion.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> News to me that Peter was the Chair of the NCSG, the things we learn!
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ncuc-discuss <ncuc-discuss-bounces at lists.ncuc.org> *On Behalf
>> Of *socata
>> *Sent:* 10 July 2018 12:08
>> *To:* farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at GMAIL.COM>; ncuc-discuss <
>> ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Hold us accountable
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Community member,
>>
>>
>>
>> I totally understand the working load of running a community, and you
>> can't require everything is perfect here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Even though she may make some mistakes sometimes, I have recognized that
>> Farzaneh have done so much for the community. The chair of NCSG was never a
>> easy job.
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to work with Peter Green (Zhang Zuan), the former Chair of NCSG,
>> in China Organizational Name Administration Center(CONAC) for several
>> years. I know lots of members in this community may hold negative opinions
>> to him, and I also have different idea about a registry's staff to get
>> involved in NCSG. However, I must admit that Peter Green pay lots of extra
>> hours for NCSG. I heard that he used to work very late for NCSG, and
>> usually left the office in 2 a.m to catch the NCSG meeting. In addition, no
>> one in CONAC understand what he was doing, so he gets no extra salary and
>> promotion.
>>
>>
>>
>> The chair of NCSG was a pure voluntary position. Farzaneh did not get any
>> payment from us. You can' t ask her too much.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Zhou Heng
>>
>> Ph.d Candidate
>>
>> Renmin University of China
>>
>>
>> At 2018-07-10 03:10:25, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Renata,
>>
>>
>>
>> Let me clarify something. The reason why I am reluctant to have the
>> chairs of the constituencies be observers on NCSG EC application database
>> is that you ( NCUC chair) has repeatedly been putting pressure on me and
>> challenging me on why some applicants have not been approved while all the
>> EC and I were doing was working with a broken membership database and
>> trying to verify the noncommercial interest of some of the applicants who
>> were from the governments or the noncommercial nature of their association
>> was not really obvious.
>>
>> I certainly cannot and do not have enough time for such quarrels, I never
>> did that to the NCSG chair when I was NCUC chair, I had faith in my NCSG EC
>> reps.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tracy Kadesa applied for membership on 27 January. Her case was brought
>> to our attention on 2 Feb by you, less than one week after she had applied,
>> I told you it will take a month. I responded on the same day. on 17 March
>> you contacted me again cc'ing her. I responded immediately. It usually
>> takes us 1 month for approval but because we had a glitch with the
>> membership system and I wanted it to be operationalized and NCSG EC members
>> are volunteers and have other things to do it took a bit longer than the
>> one month period. We are now trying to comply with the one month period.
>>
>>
>>
>> In your outreach events or if you recommend someone apply you can do two
>> things: 1. ask them put your name as their reference (we have this section
>> on our online form  here:
>>
>> *Although references are not required, it would be helpful to the
>> Membership Committee to know if you have an affiliation with a current NCSG
>> member or can use an NCSG member as a referral to confirm your identity. **Can
>> you provide a current NCSG member as a reference? If so, who?"*.Maryam
>> can contact them with you in cc, ask for more information. But at no point
>> or time should the chair be challenging the decision of why NCSG EC is
>> making further inquiries.
>>
>> 2. Ask them to fill in the form carefully with their current contact
>> details because we might contact them. (it says on our application form) If
>> they have inquiries regarding their membership application, it is clearly
>> said on the submission form who they can contact:
>>
>> The NCSG Membership Committee receives applications on a rolling basis
>> and evaluates them monthly. If you have not received a response within 30
>> days please contact *members.ncsg.is <info at members.ncsg.is>*. If further
>> information or clarification is needed, the Membership Committee will
>> contact you.
>>
>>
>>
>> The NCSG EC will certainly document the procedure of membership approval
>> in the near future, I will advise them not to have any of the
>> constituency's chairs as observers on the membership database. I believe
>> that is the job of their NCSG EC reps to update you, you can ask your EC
>> reps to report to you on this. If you don't like how the EC members work,
>> if they are processing applications late, if they are not responding then
>> your EC  can remove them and assign someone else. As Joan suggested, a list
>> of rejected applicants can be produced, only their name and family name and
>> with the reason for rejection.  You can ask your NCSG EC reps to do this
>> for you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Farzaneh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 1:51 PM Renata Aquino Ribeiro <raquino at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Joan for your reply.
>>
>>
>>
>> Indeed the role of Observer would preserve NCSG EC independence, would be
>> just for constituency to respond in extraordinary cases.
>>
>>
>>
>> I take it the reporting of all leadership should be a constant practice.
>>
>>
>>
>> However we need a safeguard to observe the database when a member has
>> participated in outreach but could not join due to mistakes in his/her
>> communication, people who reapply etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm aware this is a long shot but just landing it here for the record.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Renata
>>
>>
>>
>> Em seg, 9 de jul de 2018 14:25, Joan Kerr <joankerr at fbsc.org> escreveu:
>>
>> Hi Renata,
>>
>>
>>
>> I think a summary of the applicants who were not approved is fine as
>> well.  I have an applicant who was not approved and does not know why.  I
>> think that observing is good, however, information for the Chair to follow
>> up would suffice as well.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 12:59 PM Renata Aquino Ribeiro <raquino at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, on the black box procedure of membership approval, a request I have
>> made a while ago to NCSG Chair is to have NCUC and NPOC Chairs as observers
>> of the membership database.
>>
>> That could help us know how membership process is going when normally the
>> Constituencies EC is the one doing the outreach and knows who are the
>> members applying better than the NCSG EC rep.
>>
>> In order to know if one prospective member applied, today we have to ask
>> NCSG EC rep and they have other work to do, may be abducted by aliens or
>> have any other hinderance that prevents them from reporting timely.
>>
>> Another issue is that their sending data to us would constitute as data
>> smuggling and I believe that would cause a real privacy nightmare.
>>
>> Tracy Kadesa, for instance, just tweeted out asking about her application
>> in despair. Others post on Facebook.
>>
>> Of course we do count on Maryam, ICANN Staff, to confirm status as well.
>>
>> But I this fencing via ICANN Staff to membership database is the opposite
>> of accountability to me and while we understand NCSG is the supreme decider
>> of all things, we just want a peek to oversee behind our iron umbrella
>> organization.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Renata
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Joan Kerr,
>>
>> Entrepreneur, Artist, Humanitarian
>>
>> T: +1 (416) 907-0783
>>
>> Skype: joankerr_fbsc
>>
>> fbsc.org, www.fbsc.eco
>>
>> Chair: Victory Garden Leadership Implementation Team
>>
>> Chair, Sustainable Agriculture, Global Humanitarian Technology Conference
>>
>> Chair: IEEE Smart Villages Project, Sustainable Agriculture Working Group
>>
>> Chair: ICANN Not for Profit Operational Concerns Constituency
>>
>> Recipient of the United Nations Civil Society Award (WSIS 2004)
>>
>> Recipient, Region of Durham Community Partnership Award
>>
>> Advisor, IEEE Humanitarian Initiatives Committee
>>
>> Advisor, Climate Smart Agriculture Youth Network, (CSAYN) Global
>> Coordination Unit
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org
>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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