[NCUC-DISCUSS] [NCUC-EC] Replacement on Cross Community WorkingGroup on Internet Governance

Mon Apr 11 17:18:09 CEST 2016

Hello everyone,

I have participated in the CCWG since the beginning and I agree with most
of the points raised by Wolfgang and with the need to reboot the CCWG. In
addition to what has been said, I can tell you that the CCWG has been the
only viable instrument to keep ICANN staff accountable and transparent
about what they do outside ICANN. I doubt that a less empowered structure
would have the capacity to "force" staff to be as transparent as they have
been as to keep taking community onboard in the crafting of external
messages. Moreover, I think that in a time of CEO transition (we do not
know how proactive he will be in ICANN's external relations) it would be
particularly bad to lose this channel of pressure.

This rebooting should be conducted not only on a substantive level - by the
way the CCWG did agree in Marrakech that we will have calls to discuss
substance separately from operational calls, which have taken most of our
time. The reboot should also take place on the level of participation. The
reason why some members of other stakeholder groups got away with
influencing the process so heavily is that extremely knowledgeable people
of our own constituency have not participated. I understand there were too
many processes needing our attention. But with the transition behind us,
maybe it is time for us to re-distribute tasks.

I think Bill made an excellent move to kick-start the refreshing of our
representation. I agree that a new selection for all NCUC places should be
conducted.

Best wishes,
Marília

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 9:16 AM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:

> Thx. Rafik,
>
> this helps. I did not check the Charter (sorry!). As it stands now the
> only thing which is needed is more tangible output.
>
> w
>
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Ncuc-discuss im Auftrag von Rafik Dammak
> Gesendet: Mo 11.04.2016 13:39
> An: NCUC-discuss
> Betreff: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] [NCUC-EC] Replacement on Cross Community
> WorkingGroup on Internet Governance
>
> Hi,
>
> with regard to CCWG-IG role and tasks, it is better to check its charter
> before jumping in some conclusions , you can find it here
> https://community.icann.org/display/CPMMB/CCWG+on+IG+Charter . the list of
> the activities mentioned in the charter:
>
> ". Provide input to ICANN staff, SOs and/or ACs on issues pertaining to
> Internet Governance discussions and processes.
> . Provide input to the participating SOs and/or ACs to ensure such input as
> mentioned under a. above is reflected in ICANN's activities in discussions
> and processes pertaining to Internet Governance.
> . Convey to the ICANN community discussions about ICANN or ICANN matters
> that arise in other Internet Governance discussions and processes.
> . Organize SO and AC focused sessions
> . Disseminate and summarize information relevant and related to the
> Internet Governance events and processes described above.
> . Draft Position Papers and Statements as deemed appropriate, in accordance
> with the rules of this Charter"
>
> ICANN is already involved in several IG spaces via its staff and
> participating in different processes like OECD, CSTD , WSIS+10 review and
> so on submitting comments. there was some progress with the staff sharing
> in several occasions the submissions for comments and review.
>
> the CCWG-IG can do more and it needs more participants to do so, to push
> for more work like position papers and statements. there was too much focus
> on organizing the IG session at ICANN meeting and it should shift from that
> to more substantive deliverable. to alleviate the concerns , the CCWG is
> not aimed to have the exclusivity of IG discussion within ICANN.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> 2016-04-11 17:36 GMT+09:00 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
> wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>:
>
> >
> > Hi Milton,
> >
> > I think almost everything you say below is correct. But in my eyes this
> > does not lead to the conclusion to close the CCWG. My conclusion is that
> we
> > have to re-boot it.
> >
> > I agree that the CCWG did a bad job in the last two years. There was only
> > little innovative outcome. The organized panels within ICANN meetings
> were
> > with little audience, sometimes confusing or overpacked and more
> > (burocratic and low quality)presentations than creative discussions.
> >
> > However to conclude we should close the CCWG (I was not a member and do
> > not intend to join) would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
> The
> > CCWG needs a re-booting after the completion of the IANA Stewardship
> > Transition. ICANNs involvement in broader IG issues - as you have
> described
> > below - is a cross constituency challenge. How you can develop ICANN
> > "foreign policies" in an isolated way, leaving it to some activists from
> > some SOs or ACs?
> >
> > During the two years of discussion around the IANA transition, the
> concept
> > of a CCWG has emerged as a very robust and useful instrument to discuss
> and
> > settle issues which are in the interests of all SOs and ACs. And this is
> > here the case. Broader IG issues need a cross constituency discussion
> > platform. I agree that the existing CCWG needs re-chartered and has to
> > produce more tangible outcome (recommendations, advice etc). To close it
> > would give the wrong signal and could have unintended side-effects,
> feeding
> > "isolationalism".
> >
> > I see this also from a more strategic point of view. When the IANA
> > transition is completed we have to start a discussion about restructurung
> > ICANN according to the new realities which emerged both inside and
> outside
> > of ICANN in the 2010s. The existing ICANN structure goes back to 2002. As
> > you remember I introduced in Buenos Aires the idea to start a discussion
> > about a general restructuring of ICANN as soon as the transition is
> > completed. I called it "Workstream 3" and "ICANN 2020" (probably it will
> > need some years more and "ICANN 2025" is more realistic). We had a good
> > first BOF in Marrakesh. My vision for a restructured ICANN would be a
> three
> > layer model for the "empowered community":
> > Layer 1: three SOs (as contracting parties)
> > Layer 2: four ACs (as stakeholder representative goups with individual
> > constituencies)
> > Layer 3: issue based CCWGs (where needed) which can be created and closed
> > according to the needs.
> > In this concept a CCWG on IG could be developed into a platform where all
> > SOs and ACs (and their constituencies) have a place to discuss how ICANN
> > should design its "foreign policy".
> >
> > Again: My recommendaiton is NOT to close the CCWG but to reform (re-boot)
> > it.
> >
> > Wolfgang
> >
> >
> > Wolfgang:
> > I think almost everything you say below is correct, but does not really
> > bear on the question whether we need to continue the CCWG-IG.
> >
> > You are asking "how the involvement of ICANN in broader IG issues should
> > be designed in the future." Do you really think this CCWG-IG has anything
> > to say about that?
> >
> > Let me recount for you all the ways in which ICANN people and entities
> > interact with the broader IG environment whether or not this CCWG exists:
> >
> > 1. ICANN's board and CEO can and probably will continue to send staff to
> > WSIS-related meetings, civil society meetings such as Rightscon, EU and
> EC
> > meetings, regional meetings of governments, cybersecurity seminars and
> > conferences and intergovernmental meetings, etc. etc. This is a matter of
> > board policy, not CCWG policy
> >
> > 2. ICANN constituencies and stakeholder groups will continue to attend
> > meetings such as IGF, at the global, regional and local level, and many
> of
> > these meetings will be focused broadly on IG and not narrowly.
> >
> > 3. CROPP funding will continue to send ICANN participants to the farther
> > reaches of the IG environment. The CCWG-IG does not provide or allocate
> > CROPP funds.
> >
> > 4. Blogs and news items about the broader environment (e.g., IGP blog,
> > Circle ID, India's CCG and CIS, CDT) will be written by and/or read by
> > ICANN people
> >
> > 5. Summer schools, such as the one you run in Meissen, and regional ones,
> > will continue to situate ICANN in the broader context.
> >
> > Etc., etc.
> >
> > I was struck by Bill Drake's comments about the CCWG-IG - unlike you, he
> > has labored in it for sometime, and if he is not all that enthusiastic
> > about continuing it in its present form, it speaks volumes.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ncuc-discuss [mailto:ncuc-discuss-bounces at lists.ncuc.org] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 11:33 AM
> > > To: William Drake <wjdrake at gmail.com>; NCUC-discuss <ncuc-
> > > discuss at lists.ncuc.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] [NCUC-EC] Replacement on Cross Community
> > > WorkingGroup on Internet Governance
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I did not participate in this CCWG. But when I was in the Board we had
> > various
> > > discussions how the involvement of ICANN in broader IG issues should be
> > > designed in the future (in particular after the IANA transition). There
> > are two
> > > schools of thought: One (the isolationsists) which argue that ICANN
> > should
> > > more or less ignore what happens ourtside the I* world. The other group
> > > argues (and I was part of this group) that there is a need that ICANN
> > remains
> > > involved in IGF, WGEC, WSIS (and even in Wuzhen, FII, NMI, GIGC, GCSC,
> > GFCE
> > > etc.). Broader Internet Governance is and can not be ICANNs core
> business
> > > and there is a risk of mission creep. But ignorance and isolation can
> > fire back
> > > and ICANN can find itself in an unfriendly environment which could make
> > the
> > > daily operations of its core business more complicated if processes
> > start in
> > > bodies (like UNCSTD or Wuzehn or The Hague) and Trigger develoopments
> in
> > > wrong directions. If ICANN is not present and can not raise the voice,
> > this can
> > > happen. Sometimes such processes are difficult to stop. I called the
> > needed
> > > ICANN involvement in broader IG issues as an investment into the
> > protection
> > > of ICANNs environment. I do also not buy SDB´s argument that ICANNs
> > > engagement in the NetMundial was a mistake. Insofar I propose to
> continue
> > > with this CCWG. The ICANN Board needs good advice from the community
> > > and a CCWG approach is a good approach to trigger bottom up
> developments
> > > of reasonable positions.
> > >
> > > Wolfgang
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   etc.+ bve very<  s a
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Ncuc-discuss im Auftrag von William Drake
> > > Gesendet: So 10.04.2016 16:55
> > > An: NCUC-discuss
> > > Betreff: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] [NCUC-EC] Replacement on Cross Community
> > > WorkingGroup on Internet Governance
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > > On Apr 9, 2016, at 06:19, avri doria <avri at apc.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > > On 08-Apr-16 18:34, Matthew Shears wrote:
> > > >> I am a firm believer that this CCWG should exist and it should do so
> > > >> for a very specific reason:
> > >
> > >
> > > There has been an on again off again conversation for about the past
> year
> > > about the future of the CCWIG.  As I wrote to the NCSG-PC list in
> > February,
> > >
> > > >> the CCW-IG was initially set up after the 2013 BA meeting to
> provide a
> > > written input to the NETmundial meeting.  Since then it has drifted
> with
> > no
> > > ability to work on common texts of any kind (due to resistance from
> > various
> > > biz actors we know), and indeed no ability to have a coherent
> discussion
> > of
> > > this or other matters.  By default its sole activities have turned into
> > a) pressing
> > > Nigel and Tarek to explain what they say in intergovernmental settings;
> > and b)
> > > planning the public IG sessions, which have turned into MAG-like
> > escapades
> > > with agenda control games (one guess who) being played out on weekly
> > > phone calls typically involving less than a dozen people.
> > > >>
> > > >> As the NCSG 'participant' on the CCWIG I'm inclined to think it
> > should be
> > > wound down, or turned into a working party.  If people interested in
> the
> > > broader IG landscape want a place to talk about its relevance to ICANN,
> > > interface with staff who rep ICANN in intergovernmental spaces, and
> > monkey
> > > around micromanaging the public IG session, fine, by why does it need
> to
> > be a
> > > chartered CCWG with all the constraints that implies?  If it was a
> > coalition of
> > > the willing, the group might actually able to say or do something, as
> > the HR
> > > group has.
> > >
> > > I couldn't attend the F2F meeting of the group in Marrakech
> > > https://meetings.icann.org/en/marrakech55/schedule/wed-ccwg-ig  as the
> > > NomCom had a meeting at the same time.  But I'm told this was
> discussed a
> > > bit, and that the people in attendance decided that it should remain a
> > CCWG,
> > > an organizational form that is apparently uniquely well suited to the
> two
> > > activities mentioned above.  So that's where things rest at the moment.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Bill
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ncuc-discuss mailing list
> > > Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org
> > > http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ncuc-discuss mailing list
> > > Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org
> > > http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ncuc-discuss mailing list
> > Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org
> > http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ncuc-discuss mailing list
> Ncuc-discuss at lists.ncuc.org
> http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss
>

-- 
*Marília Maciel*
Pesquisadora Gestora - Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
Researcher and Coordinator - Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law
School
http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
DiploFoundation associate - www.diplomacy.edu
PoliTICs Magazine Advisory Committee - http://www.politics.org.br/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/attachments/20160411/1b203fbb/attachment-0002.html>