discussion on xxx domain? [ncsg-policy] Draft NCSG comments to GNSO Council on Rec 6

[Rudi Rusdiah]

dear all:

nice to know you dwi and what is your comment on the recent
reorganization of director general level in the ministry of ICT ?

i wonder if national law would be effective in aborderless virtual world...
to avoid the law any indonesian would put the server outside of
indonesian territory and still
can be accessed from any  indonesian in the territory, despite effort by
government to install filters ?

how effective is an filter and any body know how effective the Chinese
government filter political content ?

any information on the success of filtering by a nation sofar ?

by the way... the article 27 of Indonesian law no 11 / 2009 on
pornography, gambling and defamations(slander libel) is too general and
possible misinterpretation by any body using the articles... so far many
cases failed and the law still lack of 11 supporting law (in indonesia
we say "peraturan pendukung" or PP)

regards, rudi rusdiah
On 01/13/2011 11:29 PM, Dwi Elfrida Martina S wrote:
> well.. for this opinion, I just remind us about what nicholas said before
> that ICANN only has role for regulate registration of domain name it self,
> without concern to content of the website. On the other hand, national
> government will become the party who responsible to choose which site and
> content that can be accessed in their country. I think this fair enough.
>
> Perhaps I am wrong, advise me if I wrong.. may I say that NCSG is will not
> concern about the content of website too,isn't? as Mr. andrew said that we
> only pursue freedom and openness for domain name creativity. for example;
> .jihad, .poppy, .xxx, we don't need to concern to the content, its just
> name. isn't?
>
> even if, one day .xxx approve as porn site by ICANN, in the case
> government of indonesia block this site in Indonesia, it's become business
> of indonesian, as long as indonesian govt doesn't try to force their
> regulation to other national government.
>
> As Information that in Indonesia there is law number 11 on 2008 about
> Information and transaction electronic which is one of chapter is regulate
> about forbidden of porn dissemination through internet and other
> electronic tools. in this chapter emphasize that people who disseminate,
> up load, duplicate, porn things deliberately or not deliberately by
> internet or other electronic tools in Indonesia region, so the person will
> be go to prison minimum 15 years and must pay the fine about minimal
> $100.000 or 1.000.000.000 rupiah.
>
> This law draft by government and society, indeed have agreed and signed by
> government and all society in Indonesian. However, there are little number
> of indonesian disagree with this law, they might do dissemination porn in
> other country who allowed them to do that.And the Indonesia government
> will not arrested them or fine them if they do it in other country.
>
> regarding to support and provide "freedom" for country to apply their
> rules within their nation, and to support and provide " openness'' for
> government and their society to have their own position in reject porn
> dissemination, I guess we can do nothing to fight the country and force
> them to agree on "adult site". It just depend on that country. I guess
> NCSG is not committee that intended to give objection for national law.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Dwi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>>  From a personal perspective, I would like to mention that I understand
>> that some in the Adult Industries object to the .xxx gTLD because they
>> fear that all 'porn' might be forced into .xxx (as if that could ever
>> happen) and that they would therefore be put in a postion where countries
>> such as Indonesia could exclude all porn just by blocking .xxx.
>>
>> So while it is improbable that all adult sites could be forced onto .xxx,
>> and it is probable that the NCSG does not wish to advocate blocking of
>> gTLDs by any nation, I would think that countries might consider taking a
>> favorable view to such potential segmentation of the adult industries.
>>
>> a.
>>
>>
>> On 13 Jan 2011, at 09:01, Nicolas Adam wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Rudi, Dwi,
>>>
>>> Thank you both for sharing your perspectives on-list, and please
>>> continue to do so.
>>>
>>> Nicolas
>>>
>>>> Hi rudi.. nice to know you:)
>>>>
>>>> agree with you opinion. Sometimes I think that indonesia government to
>>>> close all the porn things is like impossible job. it seems like a job
>>>> to
>>>> check each house whether there is mouse or not. the problem: is all
>>>> people
>>>> will give permit to government to check their house? can government
>>>> catch
>>>> all mouse that exist in that house? in fact,there are many mouse hide
>>>> under blanket.:) But, as you are indonesian too, both us agree that all
>>>> about sex is taboo and all government try to do is to protect people,
>>>> specially teenagers, children from all porn files that exist in
>>>> internet.
>>>> Please keep in mind, 'Internet Sehat" program is made because
>>>> government
>>>> accepted many objections from indonesia society about how internet
>>>> contents is can't be controlled, indeed become dangerous for Indonesian
>>>> morality and culture. So, need your understanding if we still go on to
>>>> do
>>>> this program, however to good to be true.
>>>>
>>>> regarding to the recent action of out minister that asked RIM to
>>>> protect
>>>> their IP from porn sites and files, so all porn thing can't be accessed
>>>> by
>>>> BB,I am, as officer think this is impossible request too. In fact, RIM
>>>> can't fulfill that request. As I said before, it seems like impossible
>>>> job.
>>>>
>>>> anyway.. good or wrong Indonesia is our country, do all the best that
>>>> we
>>>> can do to support policies of government, because I believe it is
>>>> intended
>>>> for good things, at least for the kindness of indonesian morality.
>>>>
>>>> Btw, it is you who success to get iPad from APNIC? if I am not wrong, I
>>>> saw your name. Congratulation.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Dwi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> dear folks, dwi and friends:
>>>>
>>>>> interesting discussions on xxx domain... by the way i am also from
>>>>> indonesia...but from NGO... association of internet cafe...
>>>>> probably sex is view very differently in Indonesia and in global
>>>>> governance community...
>>>>>
>>>>> in indonesia anything to do with sex... just to say sex is almost
>>>>> taboo... not halal... so that the government launch a program internet
>>>>> sehat and filter all sex content... and this week asked BB
>>>>> (blackberry)
>>>>> to install also filter in its server in RIM (Canada) from Indonesian
>>>>> BB
>>>>> users...
>>>>> Actually for us as private sector... this is not an easy task... and
>>>>> probably wont be successful... but it is a nice try to prevent
>>>>> pornography...
>>>>> on the otherhand pornography is also exist in many places in
>>>>> Indonesia..
>>>>> such as SPA, massage parlour... and prostitute site... but the
>>>>> government seems to close their attentions...
>>>>>
>>>>> anyway... back to xxx domain...
>>>>>
>>>>> according to my view... as part of Indonesian civil association...
>>>>> this
>>>>> is an attempt to localized the sex domain... the same thing as we
>>>>> localize prostitutions... so should be OK... and probably make live
>>>>> easier for filtering content (kids access to internet).
>>>>>
>>>>> whether the site will be used for negative used... child abuse and so
>>>>> on... this is another issue that will be tackle by existing (global)
>>>>> cyberlaw... Indonesia also has now cyberlaw (we called it UU ITE Law
>>>>> no
>>>>> 11/2009 :-) ...that lacks of PP ( or supporting law to implement the
>>>>> cyberlaw...
>>>>>
>>>>> nice discussions and very good input for the global internet
>>>>> governance... regards, rudi rusdiah - apwkomitel ( association of
>>>>> community internet center - jakarta, indonesia).
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/12/2011 08:04 PM, Dwi Elfrida Martina S wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi andrew..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am new member of NCSG but not new member in ICANN. I have been 2
>>>>>> years
>>>>>> involve within ICANN and exist in GAC meeting from the fist time GAC
>>>>>> start
>>>>>> to Draft MOPO. I was replace DG of ICT  and Director of e-government
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> Ministry of ICT of Indonesia who are representative in GAC.indeed, I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> fellowship of ICANN. So please.. watching your words!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I know, from beginning .XXX is site that intended for sex. .xxx is
>>>>>> inspire from .xxx.com that known as site for sex activities. But as
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> propose counter to court of USA and make openness and freedom become
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> justification, so the court ask ICANN to review their .xxx proposal.
>>>>>> But,
>>>>>> if you have new issue that .XXX is not site for sex, you have to
>>>>>> announce
>>>>>> that thing to all participant in ICANN meeting, because as I know,
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> Cartagena meeting, most of participant still have the same point of
>>>>>> view
>>>>>> with me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beside,my question to you, can you guarantee that the content of .XXX
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> not site for sex? what kind of and openness and freedom that they
>>>>>> asked
>>>>>> for? what is the proof that .XXX as TLD is nothing to do with
>>>>>> .XXX.COM?
>>>>>> Yes.. I you are not Policy maker in NCSG, so please don't make any
>>>>>> conclusion before its not an agreement between members.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dwi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Dwi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before posting on any topic, I suggest you familiarise yourself with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> current issues by reading through the mailing list archives. There
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> find that the creation of .xxx is settled NCSG policy and the
>>>>>>> reasoning
>>>>>>> behind it has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with
>>>>>>> openness,
>>>>>>> freedom and the following of existing rules rather than exactly the
>>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> knee-jerk blinkered moralism that the MAPO proposals represent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do not make NCSG policy, but I'm well aware of it, and of the
>>>>>>> reasons
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The MAPO issue has also been well-discussed by the existing
>>>>>>> membership.
>>>>>>> While
>>>>>>> I welcome new members, I do not welcome them making personal attacks
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> basis of not understanding anything about the existing situation
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> join.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Professor Andrew A Adams                      aaa at meiji.ac.jp
>>>>>>> Professor at Graduate School of Business Administration,  and
>>>>>>> Deputy Director of the Centre for Business Information Ethics
>>>>>>> Meiji University, Tokyo, Japan       http://www.a-cubed.info/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
>