Who is keeping scores? Re: [ncdnhc-discuss] About Marketing Practices in .ORG

[Barbara Simons]

Dear Vany,
I am including the your note in its entirety, with
my comments inserted.  I apologize for the length
of this note.  It would be a lot shorter if I had
included only those portions of your comments
to which I am specifically responding.  But I
don't want you to feel that I am taking your
comments out of context.
Best regards,
Barbara

P.S.  I have frequently complained about excess
email on this list, and so I shall refrain from making
further postings on this topic.

Nilda Vany Martinez Grajales wrote:

> Barbara:
>
> Barbara Simons wrote:
>
> > Nilda Vany Martinez Grajales wrote:
> >
> > > The mission of the AdCom is administrative only.  The AdCom
> > > organize the votations, organize the documents, collection of membership
> > > fees and donations, open discussions...But don't take as excuse
> > > that I belong to the AdCom to block me for express my point of views
> > > and to document them.
> >
> > Surely you are not serious about having your views blocked!
> > You probably spoke as much at the meeting in Marina del Rey
> > as the rest of the constituency combined - frequently by arguing
> > with the attendees or appearing not to understand a point that
> > everyone else understood.
> Barbara...because I understood many points, I made my comments.
> If other's wasn't agree with my comments, then is this a sin????
> Please, stop to misinforming people that wasn't in the meeting.
>
> > Furthermore, as a member of the
> > AdCom, you have additional platforms for expressing your opinions
> > that the rest of us lack.
> No!! false.  Everyone has the same opportunity to express their opinions
> in the same
> way.  If you don't want to use your right, this is your problem I was
> treated as any
> other member and my time was the same and my chances was the same as
> others.  And I
> had the same limit of time as others when it was about discuss
> resolution proposals.
> And I am the first that I recognize that every member has the same
> chance and equality
> treatment.

My dear Vany,
You are being a bit disingenuous in your comments.
Of course everyone could speak *eventually* if we were willing
to sit in that room until midnight.  I'm sure that others will verify
that you consumed a considerable amount of the meeting time
by repeatedly trying to bring up your views on an issue about
which the rest of us wanted to move on.  Speaking for myself
only, I found your approach quite frustrating and counterproductive.
And, as I suggested in my earlier email, it was hardly the behavior
that I would have expected from someone in a leadership position.


> > Finally, if the AdCom is administrative only,
> > can you please explain how it is that you get to vote in certain situations
> > where the rest of us are unable to vote.
>
> The members that attended the f2f meeting decided in a very specific
> situation that
> a group of five people that is named AdCom voted.   If the members had
> decided
> to vote themselves, then this is their right...Right that they used to
> assing in this
> very specific situation to the AdCom the right of decision.  In any
> case, the members of the NCDNHC
> decided all of this...not me, not the AdCom.

Yes, and that is called leadership.  You are a designated leader of the
ncdnhc, whether you like it or not.


> > The fact is that the only leadership that this constituency has are
> > the elected members of the AdCom.  That's why we hold elections.
> > You are one of the leaders, and one of the responsibilities of a
> > democratically elected leader is to reflect the wishes of those being
> > represented when those views have been voted upon, as they were
> > in Marina del Rey (and may be again via email).
>
> You are confusing my role as an AdCom member with my role as a Names
> Council member.
> My role as a Names Council member is what you said above and I always
> has reflected
> the wishes of the NCDNHC in the Names Council.
>
> My role as an AdCom member is administrative only.  You are confusing
> roles.  The leadership role is to be done
> in the Names Council.  The Adminsitrative Commitee was made to have a
> commitee that
> organize the activities of the NCDNHC, not much, not less.  Please, read
> the NCDNHC charter.

Perhaps I was unclear.  You are a leader in your role as a member of
the AdCom, and you are also a leader in your even more important
role as one of the representatives of the ncdnhc in the Names Council.
I should think you would be proud of that fact.  People voted for you
because they felt that you would do a good job in representing the
interests of the ncdnhc.  We all hope that you will be successful in
that undertaking.


> > Of course if the ncdnhc
> > holds an opinion with which you have major disagreements, you always
> > have the option of resigning - rather than being put in a position of having
> > to cast a vote that would compromise your beliefs.
>
> Barbara, what a lack of respect against me and the organization I
> represent!!!

Excuse me.  What did I say that was disrespectful?  All I said was that
you, like any other elected representative, have the option of resigning
if the alternative would be to take a public position with which you have
serious disagreements.  This is a critical option for anyone in a position
of responsibility.


> Everybody has the inherent right to express their point of views.
> Online voting
> hasn't taken place yet.  The NCDNHC are 184 members, in the face to face
> meeting
> there were only 28.  I have the right to express oposition with voice
> and vote.

Of course, Vany, you have the right to express your opinion.
But when you abuse that right by preventing other work from
taking place and by making it essentially impossible for others
to express their opinions, there is at least the appearance that
you are behaving in an obstructionist fashion.  I sincerely hope
that this is not your intent.


> And until the voting period begins, every single member making a total
> of 184
> members have the right to express their voice regarding any subject that
> is
> being held for discussion.

Yes, but fortunately most choose not to do so.  Otherwise, there would
be even less chance of anything being accomplished than there is now.


> If you want to prevent to SDNP/Panama, as a
> member of the NCDNHC,
> that its voice be hear, then you are taken away the inherent rights of
> every single member
> of the NCDNHC to have a voice even if such voice is to opose other
> voices...This is our
> right as members.
>
> Of course, once the members voted online and resuls are published, then
> all members has the mission
> to act according such wishes regarding the NCDNHC and ICANN.  And this
> includes me.
>
> > By the way, I would hope that *all* of the adcom members would
> > strive to reduce the acrimony and volume of email that seems to be
> > a characteristic of our group.
> > There is a good reason that professional
> > politicians are very polite (usually) to each other, to the point of using
> > positive adjectives such as "esteemed" when referring to one another.
>
> Thanks G'd I hasn't used negative adjectives neither has insulted
> anyone.  But I saw others adopting
> negative actitudes as yours against my rights, as Milton saying that he
> will
> "ignore" APC comments, etc.
> Are we politicians or are we activist?  Politicians in this side of the
> world has a very bad name and I avoid as
> much as possible to use the word "politics".

Politicians have a bad name in the US as well.  This is most unfortunate,
because politics are a very important area of human activity.  Any
situation in which people try to reach some kind of accommodation
or compromise involves politics.  Politics can even deal with life and
death, as was the case in World War II and in the overthrow of the
Allende government in Chile and in the partition of India and
Pakistan, to choose just a few bloody examples.

The word "politic" is defined in my copy of Webster's dictionary as
"having practical wisdom; prudent; shrewd; diplomatic".  These are
the characteristics that I would hope to see displayed by our leaders.
The point is that leadership positions in the ncdnhc are "political", and
the constituency would be a lot more effective if  people in leadership
positions were to behave in a politic manner.


> > They may hate each other, but they know that they still need to work
> > together.
> Barbara, it is my feeling that all members of AdCom has good personal
> relationship
> amongst them, regardless our views and positions inside the NCDNHC.  Of
> course, if there
> is anyone who has any negative personal feeling against me, it is
> invited to write me
> in private so at least I know with who I am facing, and probably if we
> talk we arrange any
> misunderstanding, if there is any.   But thank G'd that Dany, YJ,
> Milton, Thierry and I
> appreaciates between one each other in a personal level, and when there
> is f2f meeting, we sit, we
> organize, etc...We do our job as AdCom.  Also, in my own experience,
> also I have always felt that there is a good interaction
> of the NCDNHC members with feelings of goodwill and good faith amongst
> all of us, and I hope that always such
> relations improove, regardless of our views.  That's the beauty of
> interpersonal relationships:  you can disagree with other people, or
> other people can disagree with you, but the personal relationships are
> always good :-)

I'm delighted to hear that the AdCom members have good personal
relationships.


> > My hope is that it's not too late for the members of the
> > AdCom committee to start behaving like the dignified leaders that we
> > would like you all to be.
>
> Please, document when we hasn't done our job.  If not there's no reason
> to accuse the AdCom to not accomplish our job.

My comments above deal specifically with this issue.


> > [snip]
> >
> > > So the vote will be a matter of conscience.
> >
> > Does that mean that you intend to ignore the expressed wishes of
> > the constituency when you vote on this issue?
>
> Barbara, Barbara...how convenient from you to "snip" my comments.  So
> you just highlight what you wish without analizing this frase together
> with the previous paragraph.
>

Nothing is "snipped" from this note, though it would have benefited
from being shortened.


> I am talking about the online voting that the AdCom has to organize for
> the
> NCDNHC members to vote on all resolutions.  The vote of every NCDNHC
> member
> will be a matter of conscience.
>
> Why I have to repeat you what I have being saying during several days
> and clarifying again to you and to all members
> that my vote in the Names Council (when the Names Council votes) will be
> according to the official results of the
> online voting of NCDNHC???

Assuming that an online vote can be held in time, that is fine.
But if there are problems, your responsibility is to represent
the consensus from the meeting in Marina del Rey, even if
you don't agree with it.  Or, as we have already discussed,
you can resign if you feel that such a vote would compromise
your principles.