[ncdnhc-discuss] Re: More on SVPA

Dave Crocker dhc2 at dcrocker.net
Thu Nov 8 06:01:50 CET 2001

At 10:59 AM 11/7/2001 -0500, Milton Mueller wrote:
> >>> "Alejandro Pisanty - CUAED y FQ, UNAM" <apisan at servidor.unam.mx> 
> 11/06/01 12:55AM >>>
>Can we face the fact that you tried to kick out Dave and couldn't
>this time, and go on with our other subjects? Like, would the
>Wrong. "Discuss" is an open list.

Alejandro did not mention or imply the Discuss list.  He said you tried to 
kick me out. That is what you tried.  Nothing very complicated about this, 

1.  Your note was sent to SVPAL management.  That it was COPIED the discuss 
list is nice but irrelevant.

2.  Your note asserted that SVPAL needed to replace me; it asked no 
questions and invited no discussion.  So there was nothing about that note 
that matches what you are now claiming.

3.  You used "we" twice, very clearly implying that your note represented a 
group action, though it turns out that you were not.  That was a 
straightforward misrepresentation.

4.  My relationship with Neustar was neither new nor unknown, so there was 
no legitimate basis for your issuing your personal challenge at that 
time.  No reason, that is, other than as a response to my own call for YOUR 

5.  It is interesting that you are carefully avoiding response to any of 
these details, though they have been offered more than once.

>No one gets kicked
>off, so Crocker's status as a representative of
>SVPA is immaterial to his participation.

As noted, that was not Alejandro's point.  Please respond to the real point 
he was correctly making which is that you personally sought to have me 

>This is not about Crocker. I could care less about
>him; as I have noted repeatedly I filter his messages
>after years of experience with his abusive methods
>and unconstructive dialogue.

For someone who cares so little about me, your efforts to denigrate me are 
wonderfully consistent.

It is clear, of course, that this was a personal vendetta by you and 
nothing else.  It is a shame that you lack the integrity to admit it and 
apologize for abusing your formal position within the constituency.

>I am, however, concerned about the broader
>issue of people who have agendas that are unrelated
>to their participation in some nonprofit organization,
>and join NCDNHC under subterfuges.

If you were concerned about such things, you would have raised them as 
questions to the constituency.  That is not what you did at all.  There is 
nothing in your posting to SVPAL that asked or pursued questions or 
discussion.  Feel free to offer proof otherwise.

Had you been interested in discussing an issue, you also would not have 
taken peremptory action with SVPAL management and misrepresented the 
situation as if it were a formal decision by NCC management.

>We do have settled policy on how to handle this
>problem when the representative is the same person as
>the rep for another constituency.

However, of course, that has nothing to do with me or your vendetta attack 
on me.

>We do not have settled policy on Crocker-like cases.

Whatever that means, it sure sounds serious.  Whatever that means.


Dave Crocker  <mailto:dcrocker at brandenburg.com>
Brandenburg InternetWorking  <http://www.brandenburg.com>
tel +1.408.246.8253;  fax +1.408.273.6464

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