[NCUC-EC] announcing ICANN63 travel slot?

[Renata Aquino Ribeiro]

Michael

I had given you a chance to help answer Chris Mondini, which you didn't.

At this point, we almost risked having no 3 CROPs at all

So your inaction causes harm and you would have lost this funding (all
of you, for taking so long to decide)

I do hope indeed the next is not as susceptible to backchannel lobbying

Best,

Renata


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Michael Karanicolas
<mkaranicolas at gmail.com> wrote:
> First of all - I voted. I voted for Shahul and Dina. Second a "mention" is
> not a vote.
>
> Right now, Shahul has five votes, Dina has one, and Ben has zero. There is
> no way this tally can be used to justify the result you just announced. You
> can either give the EC one last chance to weigh in, or you can award the
> second slot to Dina, but you have no authority to allocate the slots as you
> have. I would suggest you write to the list immediately explaining that the
> last email was a mistake.
>
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:57 PM Renata Aquino Ribeiro <raquino at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Michael and EC
>>
>> Yes, we have had 2 abstentions and 1 mention of Ben
>>
>> If we don't give CROP now, we likely won't give it anymore, I have
>> made that very clear
>>
>> And I can even count my dozens of reminders to you asking you to cast
>> your votes, draw any plan for this.
>>
>> As you didn't, passed the deadline, I had to do it.
>>
>> And again, I am still waiting you drawing ideas for the 9000USD
>> website management fund we have to use (4k being already given to
>> NCSG)
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Renata
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Michael Karanicolas
>> <mkaranicolas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Renata... I really don't think you can do this.
>> >
>> > Dina has one vote for her. Ben has zero.
>> >
>> > And neither candidate has ANY votes for receiving CROP.
>> >
>> > This decision does not reflect the deliberations by the EC, as reflected
>> > on
>> > the lists - and is not consistent with our bylaws.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:49 PM Renata Aquino Ribeiro
>> > <raquino at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear EC
>> >>
>> >> I am sorry but you missed the deadline for announcement for 2 days
>> >> already.
>> >> And yes, I did mention that we would very likely lose CROP ICANN63
>> >> date if we don't use, as the recent reminder of Ozan implies.
>> >>
>> >> We are already losing 9000USD on website management funding because
>> >> the EC did not come up with any contribution on this.
>> >> We discovered we had this funding in August and it is very likely the
>> >> new Chair may not be able to tap into it.
>> >> I haven't been able to address small suggestions to it.
>> >>
>> >> So we need to be more fiscally responsible to NCUC as well as
>> >> respecting our Operating Procedures.
>> >>
>> >> There is no time for  a call for ICANN63, we were questioned 2 days
>> >> ago, our staff is out until 10Sept.
>> >>
>> >> I understand the pressure on you but squandering funding is the worst
>> >> you can do.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >>
>> >> Renata
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Michael Karanicolas
>> >> <mkaranicolas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > I also don't understand this course of action. As I understand it, we
>> >> > were
>> >> > deliberating the travel slots - and all that remained was to decide
>> >> > between
>> >> > Ben or Dina. Nobody has suggested allocating the CROP and, as Bruna
>> >> > says, we
>> >> > haven't done a proper call.
>> >> >
>> >> > I would suggest the Chair hold back on this, and we ask the EC folks
>> >> > who
>> >> > voted for Ben OR Dina to just pick one or the other, with a deadline
>> >> > of
>> >> > COB
>> >> > today.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:29 PM Renata Aquino Ribeiro
>> >> > <raquino at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dear Bruna
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Unfortunately I have time and time again given the EC the
>> >> >> opportunity
>> >> >> to participate on the CROP Outreach Plan, on the deadline to ICANN63
>> >> >> and on the weighing in on solutions.
>> >> >> I'm sorry you oppose now but we are out of options
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Best,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Renata
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Bruna Martins dos Santos
>> >> >> <bruna.mrtns at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > We did not open a call for this one and it will raise questions in
>> >> >> > our
>> >> >> > membership as to why we gave it to Dina once this was never
>> >> >> > announced
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > larger list. And also, I dont believe that there is such thing as
>> >> >> > an
>> >> >> > interpretation that if we dont use this crop NOW we are to lose,
>> >> >> > given
>> >> >> > that
>> >> >> > the three slots shall be used until the end of FY19.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Em qua, 29 de ago de 2018 às 12:18, Bruna Martins dos Santos
>> >> >> > <bruna.mrtns at gmail.com> escreveu:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Dear Renata,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I am sorry but I oppose this idea. We were not discussing CROP,
>> >> >> >> we
>> >> >> >> were
>> >> >> >> discussing travel support.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Em qua, 29 de ago de 2018 às 12:17, Renata Aquino Ribeiro
>> >> >> >> <raquino at gmail.com> escreveu:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Dear all
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> We should have announced this on the 27aug
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> We also have the CROP ICANN63 slot to an EU NCUC member
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> We just received a reminder today to use it, at the risk of
>> >> >> >>> losing
>> >> >> >>> it
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I have read all the emails and I'll do the following
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Travel Support - 1st slot
>> >> >> >>> Shahul Hameed
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Travel Support - 2nd slot
>> >> >> >>> Benjamin Akinmoyeje
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> CROP ICANN63
>> >> >> >>> I'll work with Dina Thomas on a NCUC CROP outreach plan and send
>> >> >> >>> it
>> >> >> >>> to
>> >> >> >>> the EC and to the CROP staff.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Best,
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Renata
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Bruna Martins dos Santos
>> >> >> >>> <bruna.mrtns at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> > Dear All,
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > I believe that according the advice provided by Farzi we still
>> >> >> >>> > have
>> >> >> >>> > this
>> >> >> >>> > year to decide whether or not we are using this support
>> >> >> >>> > exclusively
>> >> >> >>> > to
>> >> >> >>> > NCUC
>> >> >> >>> > members or if we are opening the selection to NPOC and NCSG as
>> >> >> >>> > well
>> >> >> >>> > -
>> >> >> >>> > as we
>> >> >> >>> > did in this one - but as this selection is still subjected to
>> >> >> >>> > NCUC
>> >> >> >>> > EC I
>> >> >> >>> > believe that we should continue to perform by selecting the
>> >> >> >>> > funded
>> >> >> >>> > members
>> >> >> >>> > based on the quality of their outreach plans and application
>> >> >> >>> > independently
>> >> >> >>> > of the approach we seek to follow - opening calls or using
>> >> >> >>> > them
>> >> >> >>> > for
>> >> >> >>> > NCUC
>> >> >> >>> > only.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > In that sense, I am also between Dina and Ben.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Dina provided a good application and is also supported by NPOC
>> >> >> >>> > Leadership,
>> >> >> >>> > but I agree with Louise on the "her application might have
>> >> >> >>> > benefitted
>> >> >> >>> > from a
>> >> >> >>> > more concrete outline of how she has been working within PDPs
>> >> >> >>> > -
>> >> >> >>> > or
>> >> >> >>> > tying PDP
>> >> >> >>> > experience as an observer with her policy writing". I very
>> >> >> >>> > much
>> >> >> >>> > appreciate
>> >> >> >>> > Dina's efforts regarding the Policy writing ad-hoc group she
>> >> >> >>> > tried
>> >> >> >>> > to
>> >> >> >>> > assemble, but I did not see it moving forward (and am not
>> >> >> >>> > implying
>> >> >> >>> > it
>> >> >> >>> > is her
>> >> >> >>> > fault either).
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > On the other hand, we have Ben who we approved on a previous
>> >> >> >>> > call
>> >> >> >>> > and
>> >> >> >>> > due to
>> >> >> >>> > personal reasons was not able to attend the meeting. Ben is
>> >> >> >>> > has
>> >> >> >>> > been
>> >> >> >>> > involved in the RDS and the RPMs working group and while we
>> >> >> >>> > thought
>> >> >> >>> > that the
>> >> >> >>> > Policy meeting would be a moment for him to make sense of what
>> >> >> >>> > has
>> >> >> >>> > been
>> >> >> >>> > discussed in the calls, he was not able to attend. If I am not
>> >> >> >>> > mistaken,
>> >> >> >>> > when we chatted about his situation in PR, and the idea of
>> >> >> >>> > re-considering
>> >> >> >>> > him for the subsequent call was at the table.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Given that I am very on the fence about the selection of the
>> >> >> >>> > second
>> >> >> >>> > candidate, and that the two candidates are from EU and AF, I
>> >> >> >>> > would
>> >> >> >>> > be
>> >> >> >>> > more
>> >> >> >>> > than happy to follow the advice from our EU and AF
>> >> >> >>> > representatives.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > And please, lets decide soon on this matter, the more we delay
>> >> >> >>> > the
>> >> >> >>> > decision
>> >> >> >>> > the harder it becomes to our funded members to find tickets
>> >> >> >>> > within
>> >> >> >>> > the
>> >> >> >>> > price
>> >> >> >>> > range. Barcelona is in less than two months!
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > best,
>> >> >> >>> > B.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Em ter, 28 de ago de 2018 às 10:15, Louise Marie Hurel
>> >> >> >>> > <louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com> escreveu:
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> Dear all,
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> First, I'd like to kindly thank Joan for her inputs.
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> Second, I cast my first vote to Shahul. As my colleagues have
>> >> >> >>> >> already
>> >> >> >>> >> highlighted, he has been actively engaging in policy writing
>> >> >> >>> >> and
>> >> >> >>> >> shows
>> >> >> >>> >> promising development within our community -- he has shown
>> >> >> >>> >> consistent
>> >> >> >>> >> commitment and dedication. His application was clear,
>> >> >> >>> >> consistent
>> >> >> >>> >> and
>> >> >> >>> >> grounded. I think he would also benefit greatly from the
>> >> >> >>> >> opportunity
>> >> >> >>> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> participate on-site and hopefully lay deeper grounds for
>> >> >> >>> >> further
>> >> >> >>> >> engagement
>> >> >> >>> >> within the NCUC.
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> Quite frankly, my second vote goes to either Benjamin or
>> >> >> >>> >> Dina.
>> >> >> >>> >> Let
>> >> >> >>> >> me
>> >> >> >>> >> take
>> >> >> >>> >> a few lines to explain why - given NPOC Chair's support for
>> >> >> >>> >> Dina. I
>> >> >> >>> >> have had
>> >> >> >>> >> the opportunity to work with her in the past two meetings at
>> >> >> >>> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> onboarding
>> >> >> >>> >> program. She is committed and has engaged in drafting
>> >> >> >>> >> comments -
>> >> >> >>> >> a
>> >> >> >>> >> strong
>> >> >> >>> >> applicant. Although her application might have benefitted
>> >> >> >>> >> from a
>> >> >> >>> >> more
>> >> >> >>> >> concrete outline of how she has been working within PDPs - or
>> >> >> >>> >> tying
>> >> >> >>> >> PDP
>> >> >> >>> >> experience as an observer with her policy writing (a general
>> >> >> >>> >> way
>> >> >> >>> >> of
>> >> >> >>> >> gaining
>> >> >> >>> >> insights and perspectives from other stakeholder groups
>> >> >> >>> >> and/or
>> >> >> >>> >> maturity in
>> >> >> >>> >> navigating ICANN). On the other hand, I also think that we
>> >> >> >>> >> need
>> >> >> >>> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> give
>> >> >> >>> >> space for new applicants, and that includes giving Ben an
>> >> >> >>> >> opportunity,
>> >> >> >>> >> as he
>> >> >> >>> >> has, unfortunately, not been able to attend the last meeting
>> >> >> >>> >> due
>> >> >> >>> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> visa
>> >> >> >>> >> issues. He also submitted a good application, clearly
>> >> >> >>> >> demonstrating
>> >> >> >>> >> consistency in participating and following two PDPs and
>> >> >> >>> >> looking
>> >> >> >>> >> for
>> >> >> >>> >> mentorship. My only question here is that while he states
>> >> >> >>> >> that
>> >> >> >>> >> he
>> >> >> >>> >> would do
>> >> >> >>> >> his best to "keep along with the ICANN63 sessions especially
>> >> >> >>> >> those
>> >> >> >>> >> that
>> >> >> >>> >> concern the NCUC and NCSG" he didn't explain how the slot
>> >> >> >>> >> would
>> >> >> >>> >> also
>> >> >> >>> >> play
>> >> >> >>> >> into his volunteer work on NPOC's PC, in particular. I think
>> >> >> >>> >> that
>> >> >> >>> >> this
>> >> >> >>> >> might
>> >> >> >>> >> have been an opportunity for him to provide a more robust
>> >> >> >>> >> account
>> >> >> >>> >> of a
>> >> >> >>> >> grounded plan for engagement in this next meeting.
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> As observed, I outlined both the pros and cons of their
>> >> >> >>> >> applications.
>> >> >> >>> >> I
>> >> >> >>> >> don't think there's a clear shot here and thus count on my
>> >> >> >>> >> peers
>> >> >> >>> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> either
>> >> >> >>> >> provide further insights to their decision that might aid in
>> >> >> >>> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> allocation
>> >> >> >>> >> of this slot or, rely on a majority of voters for one or the
>> >> >> >>> >> other.
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> Hope this provides a fair account of my decision.
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> Kind regards,
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> Louise Marie Hurel
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> Cybersecurity Project Coordinator | Igarapé Institute
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> London School of Economics (LSE) Media and Communications
>> >> >> >>> >> (Data
>> >> >> >>> >> and
>> >> >> >>> >> Society)
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> Skype: louise.dias
>> >> >> >>> >> +44 (0) 7468 906327
>> >> >> >>> >> l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk
>> >> >> >>> >> louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> On Mon, 27 Aug 2018 at 18:43, Renata Aquino Ribeiro
>> >> >> >>> >> <raquino at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >>> >>> Thank you Joan for your clarification.
>> >> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 2:41 PM, Joan Kerr
>> >> >> >>> >>> <joankerr at fbsc.org>
>> >> >> >>> >>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Hi Renata, All
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > NPOC is supporting Dina for a number of reasons.  She has
>> >> >> >>> >>> > been
>> >> >> >>> >>> > working
>> >> >> >>> >>> > hard
>> >> >> >>> >>> > with the newly formed PC and has a lot of experience in
>> >> >> >>> >>> > policy
>> >> >> >>> >>> > and
>> >> >> >>> >>> > processes.  NPOC feels Dina is the right choice and will
>> >> >> >>> >>> > be
>> >> >> >>> >>> > instrumental in
>> >> >> >>> >>> > assisting with the policy going forward.
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Thanks,
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 1:23 PM Renata Aquino Ribeiro
>> >> >> >>> >>> > <raquino at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >>> >>> > wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Joan
>> >> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> Please see inquiry from one of the NCUC EC reps.
>> >> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 1:47 PM, Bruna Martins dos Santos
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> <bruna.mrtns at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > Dear all,
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > My first vote went to Shahul, and as I am still to
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > decide
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > who
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > will
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > get
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > the
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > second slot Im more prone to vote either o Ben or
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > Farell,
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > who
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > is
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > also a
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > NPOC
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > member I believe.
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > Renata, do you think that would be the case for asking
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > Joan
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > whether
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > or
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > not
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > she'd recommend a second name since Remmy withdrew his
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > candidacy
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > ?
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > best,
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > B.
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > Em dom, 26 de ago de 2018 às 21:59, Renata Aquino
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > Ribeiro
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > <raquino at gmail.com> escreveu:
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Dear EC
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> It is time to announce the ICANN63 travel slots.
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Please decide soon.
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Thanks
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> NCUC-EC mailing list
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > --
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > Bruna Martins dos Santos
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
>> >> >> >>> >>> >> > @boomartins
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > --
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Joan Kerr,
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Entrepreneur, Artist, Humanitarian
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > T: +1 (416) 907-0783
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Skype: joankerr_fbsc
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > fbsc.org, www.fbsc.eco
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Chair: Victory Garden Leadership Implementation Team
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Chair, Sustainable Agriculture, Global Humanitarian
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Technology
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Conference
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Chair: IEEE Smart Villages Project, Sustainable
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Agriculture
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Working
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Group
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Chair: ICANN Not for Profit Operational Concerns
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Constituency
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Recipient of the United Nations Civil Society Award (WSIS
>> >> >> >>> >>> > 2004)
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Recipient, Region of Durham Community Partnership Award
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Advisor, IEEE Humanitarian Initiatives Committee
>> >> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Advisor, Climate Smart Agriculture Youth Network, (CSAYN)
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Global
>> >> >> >>> >>> > Coordination Unit
>> >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>> >>> NCUC-EC mailing list
>> >> >> >>> >>> NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
>> >> >> >>> >>> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>> >> NCUC-EC mailing list
>> >> >> >>> >> NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
>> >> >> >>> >> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > --
>> >> >> >>> > Bruna Martins dos Santos
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
>> >> >> >>> > @boomartins
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Bruna Martins dos Santos
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
>> >> >> >> @boomartins
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Bruna Martins dos Santos
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
>> >> >> > @boomartins
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> NCUC-EC mailing list
>> >> >> NCUC-EC at lists.ncuc.org
>> >> >> https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec