[NCUC-DISCUSS] Expanding Scope of ICANN

Marc Perkel marc at churchofreality.org
Mon Oct 28 18:39:52 CET 2013


I'm not a lawyer but I have extensive legal experience. You can't sue 
the USG because they claim State Secrets Immunity and the judge 
dismisses the case. I have been in court and watch it happen as the EFF 
tried to do just that.

On 10/28/2013 10:32 AM, Jorge Amodio wrote:
>
> I'm not a lawyer and qualified to judge if it is illegal or not, are 
> you ? If so, just sue the USG.
>
> -J
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Marc Perkel 
> <marc at churchofreality.org <mailto:marc at churchofreality.org>> wrote:
>
>     What the USG is doing is highly illegal. However because the
>     president and congress choose to ignore the constitution they can
>     get away with it. And we have no right to inflict ourselves on the
>     rest of the world.
>
>
>     On 10/28/2013 10:18 AM, Jorge Amodio wrote:
>>
>>     The NSA is a product of the USG, the officials of the USG gave
>>     the NSA the mandate and funding to do what they have been doing
>>     for ages, I hardly believe that ICANN is even close to be the
>>     right organization to tackle that issue.
>>
>>     If you are a US Citizen, call your Senators/Representatives and
>>     express your opinion, and put pressure on the big pockets that
>>     fund the lobbying apparatus in Washington DC so they change the
>>     agenda accordingly.
>>
>>     Protocol Names and Numbers have NOTHING to do with the NSA, so it
>>     is not in the scope of ICANN to fix ANYTHING related to it.
>>
>>     -J
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Marc Perkel
>>     <marc at churchofreality.org <mailto:marc at churchofreality.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         I think ICANN needs to increase its scope. I think ICANN
>>         needs to become a UN alternative forum to fill a vacuum to
>>         address issues like the NSA spying. If ICANN doesn't do it -
>>         who will?
>>
>>
>>         On 10/27/2013 11:01 PM, Dan Krimm wrote:
>>
>>             To the extent that Fadi is trying to address Internet
>>             Governance generally
>>             (forgive me if I am reading too much into his actions?),
>>             that would seem to
>>             be out of scope, regardless of whether ICANN/IANA and
>>             general-IG both would
>>             benefit from internationalization.
>>
>>             As for multistakeholderism, in principle this all sounds
>>             great, but in
>>             practice it seems to have fallen far short of its
>>             intended potential.  In
>>             practice is where the rubber hits the road, and in
>>             practice MSism at ICANN
>>             has recently fallen prey to ad hoc action when some "more
>>             equal than
>>             others" stakeholders decide the outcome is not to their
>>             liking.  They
>>             apparently start to think along the lines of "God is not
>>             Mocked."
>>
>>             I see MSism as still an experimental work-in-progress,
>>             hardly with all the
>>             bugs worked out, and not necessarily "ready for prime
>>             time" in terms of
>>             overall world governance.  The only reason it has worked
>>             as free from
>>             collapse at ICANN as it has up to now, I think, is that
>>             the big Powers That
>>             Be in the world (nations and big corporations) hadn't
>>             really seen ICANN as
>>             all that meaningful in their general scheme of things.
>>              The more important
>>             ICANN's actions become, the more the big powers will
>>             pound on it to shape
>>             it to their desires.  I think you've only seen the bare
>>             beginning of this
>>             in the ad hoc shenanigans of the last few years.  Just
>>             beginning to rev up
>>             the engines.  MSism has not reached up out of the
>>             play-pen to play with the
>>             Big Boys yet, as far as I can tell, and it remains to be
>>             seen how it will
>>             fare if it is brought up to the Big Time.
>>
>>             That's a big risk, IMHO.  Be careful what you ask for,
>>             you might get it.
>>             And if it doesn't turn out how you expected, what then?
>>              This whole MSism
>>             experiment is a huge exercise in unintended consequences
>>             (in the gap
>>             between theory and practice), if you ask me.  It's worth
>>             doing the
>>             experiment, but I'd be more comfortable if the experiment
>>             were closer to
>>             completion before trying it out on anything *really*
>>             important.  I don't
>>             see it anywhere near that point, yet.
>>
>>             Dan
>>
>>
>>             --
>>             Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the
>>             author alone and do
>>             not necessarily reflect any position of the author's
>>             employer.
>>
>>
>>
>>             At 12:59 AM -0400 10/28/13, avri doria wrote:
>>
>>                 Hi,
>>
>>                 In terms of legitimacy, isn't one of the topics that
>>                 needs to be explored
>>                 internationalisation of ICANN, and IANA? Isn't that a
>>                 topic at the top of
>>                 the list? That seems to be in scope.
>>
>>                 And the ICANN Board seems to be on-board as Fadi was
>>                 meeting with a subset
>>                 of them (including the Chair) and AC/SO leadership
>>                 every morning. I wasn't
>>                 in the meetings, and don't know who the rep from gnso
>>                 was since Jonathan
>>                 wasn't there, so don't know what the level of buy in
>>                 was, but I heard no
>>                 complaints on the ground.
>>
>>                 So whatever we might say about scope creep Fadi is
>>                 not being renegade.
>>
>>                 As for scope creep Fadi and the leaders of the other
>>                 I* seem to be acting
>>                 in coordinated faction, so it is within their scope,
>>                 and would seem to be
>>                 in scope for any one of them to act on I*'s behalf in
>>                 organizational
>>                 talks with governments on a meeting planning.
>>
>>                 So, in this case at least, I see no fundamental
>>                 problem of overreach by
>>                 Fadi.  And, whether he fully understand what it
>>                 means, he seems to be
>>                 carrying the banner of multistakeholderism into these
>>                 discussions.
>>
>>                 So, at least this once, I am not ready to join in
>>                 Fadi-attack.
>>
>>
>>                 avri
>>
>>                 Sent from a T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>>
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>>
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>
>

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