for Debbie: Explaining votes made while representing NCSG while on GNSO Council

Fri Oct 14 23:26:35 CEST 2011

I too favor freedom of speech too. I'm also in favor of ICANN making it more
difficult for the well known centres of global cybercrime to operate in the
full know of their governments which profit from it?

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Wendy Seltzer <wendy at seltzer.com> wrote:

> On 10/14/2011 03:43 PM, Alain Berranger wrote:
> > Can we all agree that there is malfeasance on the Web and that it should
> be
> > brought down as often and as much as possible?
>
> Just as soon as we can all agree on a consistent, fair, and universally
> acceptable definition of "malfeasance" and proper process for its
> detection and eradication.  Since I suspect that agreement will be a
> long time in the making, I err on the side of leaving free speech up.  I
> hope that in the meantime, we can work on improving procedures so that
> we can be more confident that Internet users have had the chance to
> defend their speech before it's silenced.
>
> The raft of cybersecurity
> > legislation around the world's legislations is probably a confirmation of
> > the seriousness and extent of the problem. However it is accepted widely
> > that we must strike a balance between fighting cybercrime and ensuring
> data
> > protection/privacy. How much privacy should a criminal have in the
> > accomplishment of the crime?... so whatever our personal views on
> > that, please let's allow for all positions along that spectrum and allow
> for
> > debate.
> >
> > In any case, the issue here seems to me to be more micro and internal -
> > since NCSG is now made up of both NCUC and NPOC, we should apply freedom
> of
> > expression principles in house and sometimes agree to disagree if the
> debate
> > stalls - so I venture to say that now an NCSG consensus does not extend
> only
> > from an NCUC concensus as it did in the past, but from both NCUC and NPOC
> > constituencies. It is quite clear to me by now that NPOC leadership and
> NCUC
> > leadership are not often in sync. Since NCUC leadership is controlling
> NCSG
> > (approval of NPOC members and its impact on the election process, travel
> > allocation issues, etc...) there is not much space for NPOC to debate.
>
> I do not see how NCUC can be "controlling" NPOC. The two constituencies
> are now part of NCSG, where I'm happy to see the members debate without
> regard to constituency of origin.
>
> --Wendy
>
> >
> > Alain
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Spock-logical answer... :)
> >>
> >> Fascinating. Now we have a "law enforcement community". Now the
> >> repressing agents are put all in the same basket as an interest group! I
> >> thought civil society's focus in vying for rights was to debate and
> >> dialogue with law makers, not the guys who go kicking and arresting
> >> people under orders of those law makers, to put it bluntly. Soon we will
> >> have the flics-and-cops constituency, supported by NPOC?
> >>
> >> Your argument does not stick, simply, Debbie.
> >>
> >> --c.a.
> >>
> >> On 10/12/2011 10:21 AM, Debra Hughes wrote:
> >>> Thanks for your question, Robin.  My vote reflects the considered
> >>> opinion of the NPOC community.  During the discussion of the motion,
> Tim
> >>> Ruiz (the maker) explained the dissatisfaction by the law enforcement
> >>> community that important requests from their community were not
> included
> >>> among the possible policy revisions that would be considered in the
> >>> issues report.  Since the purpose of this request is intended to
> "assist
> >>> law enforcement in its long-term effort to address Internet-based
> >>> criminal activity" it seemed only reasonable that the scope of the
> >>> Issues report would include possible policy additions and revisions
> that
> >>> are very important to the group for which the initiative is designed to
> >>> assist.  It appears the interests of the registrars were addressed, but
> >>> we also think it is a prudent and fair approach to carefully and
> >>> meaningfully consider and weigh the input from an important group that
> >>> will be impacted by the policy changes, even if that stakeholder is not
> >>> a contracted party.  The NPOC supports open discussion and the value of
> >>> inputs from important stakeholders when considering the language and
> >>> creation of reports and policy development.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I ask the NCSG members to consider the perspective that some NGOs, non
> >>> profits and end users will benefit from robust improvements that will
> >>> assist law enforcement address Internet crime.   We respect that some
> in
> >>> NCSG may not agree; however, I look forward to sharing this important
> >>> perspective as a NSCG Councilor, if elected.  Also, I think NCSG
> >>> leadership should encourage its members to share their perspectives.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Debbie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>>
> >>> From: Robin Gross [mailto:robin at ipjustice.org]
> >>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 1:26 PM
> >>> To: Hughes, Debra Y.; NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> >>> Subject: for Debbie: Explaining votes made while representing NCSG
> while
> >>> on GNSO Council
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Debbie,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I listened to the audio
> >>> <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-council-20111006-en.mp>  of
> >>> yesterday's GNSO Council call and was surprised that you broke with all
> >>> the NCSG GNSO Councilors and instead voted with the Intellectual
> >>> Property Constituency (IPC) against Motion 3 which deals with providing
> >>> law enforcement assistance on addressing criminal activity (at about 1
> >>> hr).  The IPC stated it would vote against the motion because it did
> not
> >>> give law enforcement enough of what it wanted (i.e. it was "too soft"
> >>> and didn't collect enough info on people).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Would you be willing to explain to the NCSG why you voted with the IPC
> >>> instead of the NCSG (and the rest of the GNSO Council) on this issue
> >>> (Motion 3) in yesterday's GNSO Council Meeting?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thank you,
> >>>
> >>> Robin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Please find the MP3 recording of the GNSO Council teleconference, held
> >>> on Thursday, 6 October 2011 at:
> >>> http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-council-20111006-en.mp3
> >>> <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-council-20111006-en.mp3>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> on page
> >>>
> >>> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/#oct
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Agenda Item 5: Law Enforcement assistance on addressing criminal
> >>> activity (10 minutes)
> >>>
> >>> A motion is being made to recommend action by the ICANN Board with
> >>> regards to addressing Internet-based criminal activity.
> >>>
> >>> Motion
> >>> <
> https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocouncilmeetings/Motions+22+Sept
> >>> ember+2011>  deferred from 22 September Council meeting
> >>>
> >>> Refer to motion: 3
> >>>
> https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocouncilmeetings/Motions+06+Octob
> >>> er+2011
> >>>
> >>> 5.1 Reading of the motion (Tim Ruiz)
> >>> 5.2 Discussion
> >>>
> >>> 5.3 Vote
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> IP JUSTICE
> >>>
> >>> Robin Gross, Executive Director
> >>>
> >>> 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA  94117  USA
> >>>
> >>> p: +1-415-553-6261    f: +1-415-462-6451
> >>>
> >>> w: http://www.ipjustice.org     e: robin at ipjustice.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Wendy Seltzer -- wendy at seltzer.org +1 914-374-0613
> Fellow, Yale Law School Information Society Project
> Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University
> http://wendy.seltzer.org/
> https://www.chillingeffects.org/
> https://www.torproject.org/
> http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/
>

--
Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
Member, Board of Directors, CECI,
http://www.ceci.ca<http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/>
Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, www.schulich.yorku.ca
Trustee, GKP Foundation, www.globalknowledgepartnership.org
Vice Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, http://npoc.org/
O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
Skype: alain.berranger
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