Results of the Chartering process

[Milton L Mueller]

Evan,


I appreciate not having others speak for me when I'm on the list.
[Milton L Mueller] I was at the ALAC meeting when this was discussed. It was clear that CLO and you have made up your mind in favor of a CC, and that no one else has (except for Beau who wasn’t there). It was also clear that the idea that consumer agenda DOES NOT EQUAL consumer constituency was a new one to virtually everyone there, including you. Thus, everyone involved needs to consider that equation at greater length and in greater depth.

I am not "ALAC"
[Milton L Mueller] we know, so don’t try to speak for it.

And -- let me quite clear -- I strongly support formation of a consumer constituency if that is what consumer advocacy groups and individuals want. It should be not my determination -- nor that of Milton or anyone outside that group -- whether this a good idea.

[Milton L Mueller] Not correct, sorry. It a collective decision. You, I, everyone here, has a right to express their opinion about a proposed CC, and the Board decides based on open public comment. I’d appreciate it if you’d stop trying to prevent discussion of the issue. Creating a new constituency is costly and has the potential to fragment communication and confuse incoming members; on the other hand it may focus efforts and provide some rallying point for consumer advocates. That is a discussion we need to have, and will have, despite your efforts to short-circuit it.

One issue you haven’t addressed is the problem of CSG vs. NCSG. Where does the CC reside? If you say the CSG, how do noncommercial consumer groups get into the CSG? If you say the NCSG, how do commercial consumer orgs get into the NCSG? If you say both, well, a single constituency spanning two SGs has never existed and wasn’t contemplated in the new bylaws. How does that work?

There are a lot of things to discuss here. So again, I’d advise you to weigh in on the merits, address substantive points, and stop shouting at us that we have no right to talk about it.

I support whatever route the consumer groups themselves believe is the best path for them. No other reason should be required.

[Milton L Mueller] There is no such thing as “the consumer groups themselves,” if by that you mean a single, uniform category of actor. That, in fact, is one of the biggest problems with perpetual subdivision of SGs into little constituencies. Some individuals associated with consumer groups seem to support the idea, others don’t. The major North American Consumer groups, such as Consumer Union and Consumer Federation, are not even in ICANN. The BEUC in Europe is not in ICANN and doesn’t want to be. The Hong Kong Consumer Council is not in ICANN. EPIC is a NCUC member and considers itself a consumer org but also a privacy org. Beau, a purported leader of the CC, is not in a consumer group any more but claims he is interested in consumer rights. But hey, so do I. And I’m a paying member of CU and have worked with consumer advocacy organizations on Internet and telecom policy issues for two decades. And that’s true of many people in NCUC, like Bill Drake and others. What happens if a group of 5 consumer orgs claims to be THE “consumer constituency” but has none of the major consumer orgs and isn’t supported by 3 or 4 other consumer orgs?

In the original NCSG charter we proposed, we had the idea of an “interest group” which was a more lightweight structure without the enormous overhead and board approvals of constituencies. If we were talking about a SIG, I would have exactly the same attitude as you: let anyone who meets a simple threshold form one and let a thousand flowers bloom. Constituencies are much heavier, permanent and resource-consuming structures.

Consumer AGENDA is easily de-linked from a consumer CONSTITUENCY. By the same token, the two are easily confused. Many people in ALAC make the same mistake you are making - they assume that pursuing a consumer agenda = pursuing a consumer constituency. I am asserting that that equation is false.

We know the difference. Can we move on, please?

[Milton L Mueller] Evan, it’s really rude to attempt to pre-empt discussion in that way. This is not your list, you do not control the agenda. We will move on when we are ready to move on. And besides, I am not convinced people in ALAC do understand that difference.

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