[ncsg-policy] Re: [ncsg-ec] RE: my review of the staff's edit to our SG charter.

[Dan Krimm]

+1

Any org merely structured, itself, as an NPO that nevertheless has a
formally stated mission in its own articles of incorporation to serve the
interests of a for-profit/commercial "secondary" constituency does not
serve the interests of a non-commercial constituency.

Dan


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At 5:53 PM -0800 2/11/11, Robin Gross wrote:
>I strongly object to Debbie and Amber's request that NCSG open up its
>membership to commercial trade associations.
>
>NCSG is the *only* place at ICANN that is supposed to be free from
>commercial influence so other important goals can be pursued.  All of the
>other 5 constituencies in the GNSO are commercial in nature.  And many in
>At-Large are commercially oriented, as "noncommercial" is not part of its
>mission.  But NCSG is the only place that is reserved specifically for
>non-commercial interests and it is important to keep this space free from
>commercial concerns, which permeate in every other nook and cranny of
>ICANN.   ICANN's model was designed to allow a specific space for only
>noncommercial interests to be promoted as a way of advancing the health
>and development of the Internet.  Human rights can never depend upon
>commercial interests alone to succeed, as one example of "other" goals
>besides commercial ones ICANN might want to consider.  Without a barrier
>of some kind between the two worlds, noncommercial interests will be
>over-run by the well-financed commercial interests at ICANN.  Of course
>commercial interests have a place in policy development, but ICANN must
>leave a single solitary space that cannot be over-run by commercial
>interests if it wants to claim it represents "the global public interest".
>
>If we opened up NCSG to commercial trade organizations, groups like the
>Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) or the International
>Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) would join.  I bet Big
>Pharma trade associations would be among the first to sign-up to NCSG
>(since their interests are so woefully under-represented at ICANN between
>the IPC and the BC).
>
>No, I think we have to draw a line at some point -- and it is with
>commercial trade associations.  They don't belong in NCSG.  They have a
>legitimate place in policy development, but it isn't going to be in the
>non-commercials' name.
>
>Best,
>Robin
>
>
>Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:NCSG Charter-2011-02#21F217.doc
>(WDBN/«IC») (0021F217)
>
>
>On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:02 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks for the edit pass.
>>
>> On 'civility' I expect we can come to any agreement.  As you said, it
>>has such a broad meaning.
>>
>> I took a quick look at the other comments, and some of your recommended
>>changes seem like they would be substantive changes to the charter that
>>was approved by a vote in the NCSG.  I have been very careful to not make
>>substantive changes during this process.  I will read it more carefully
>>this weekend.  I would think that I would need to have consensus in the
>>EC for making any substantive changes on behalf of the NCSG.  I would
>>like to see where the discussion goes on your proposals.
>>
>> But of course I will forward them to the SIC and Staff, with any
>>comments that are generated on these lists.  And  I would expect you to
>>offer them as a comments during the comment period.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> a.
>>
>>
>> On 11 Feb 2011, at 14:31, Amber Sterling wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Debbie and I reviewed the proposed NCSG charter together and our
>>> edits/comments are attached.  Please let me know if you have any
>>> questions.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Amber
>>>
>>> Amber Sterling
>>> Senior Intellectual Property Specialist
>>> Association of American Medical Colleges
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at acm.org]
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:44 PM
>>> To: NCSG EC; NCSG Policy Committee
>>> Subject: [ncsg-ec] my review of the staff's edit to our SG charter.
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Here is a summary of my comments.   I intend to send this to Sam Monday
>>> morning.
>>>
>>> In some cases these comments may not make sense without Sam's comment in
>>> the text.  I guess sometimes they might not makes sense in any case.
>>>
>>> These comments can also be found in the document itself.
>>>
>>>
>>> Comments:
>>>
>>> Re 1.2.2 (c) Inclusion of civility
>>>
>>> If necessary I am sure we will include the word 'civility'. Many of the
>>> NCSG members, especially those in NCUC, see this particular requirement
>>> for civility as being problematic in that it requires a value judgment
>>> close to political correctness in order to make a judgment of what is
>>> civil and what is not.  Especially in a multi-cultural organization
>>> often one cultures directness is another cultures incivility. We also
>>> believe that this criteria has been used improperly by the Ombudsman and
>>> others in ICANN's past to limit freedom of expression.
>>>
>>>
>>> Re 2.2.3 - definition of large and small organization
>>>
>>> Personally I prefer the original NCSG definition and recommend that the
>>> Constituency process includes this instead.  the problem with the
>>> criterion here is that certain organization will be excluded from
>>> membership based on not being large enough to be small.
>>>
>>>
>>> a. Organizations that have more than 50 employees, or are membership
>>> organizations with more than 500 individual members, shall be classified
>>> as "large organizations".
>>>
>>> b. Organizations that are composed of 10 or more organizational members
>>> that qualify as "large" under criterion (a.) above shall be classified
>>> as "large organizations".
>>>
>>> c. Organizations that do not qualify as large organizations shall be
>>> classified as "small organizations".
>>>
>>>
>>> 2.2.8 Inactive Membership
>>>
>>> While it is reasonable to include a sentence to indicate that members
>>> can resign, i don't think we need to have names on the inactive list
>>> times out.
>>>
>>> Also, at this point we do not have dues.  We are considering the
>>> introduction of voluntary contributions i the future, but at this point
>>> membership in the NCSG is like membership in ISOC, no payment necessary.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2.2.10  Sam had a question on outreach and coordination between
>>> constituency Outreach and SG outreach.  recommended adding:
>>>
>>> Membership outreach will be coordinated with Constituency outreach
>>> efforts and any outreach efforts established by the GNSO or ICANN.
>>>
>>> 2.4.2.1 Requirements for appeal and the question of whether there should
>>> be weighted notion of bringing the case for consideration.
>>>
>>> We thought about this and decided that while the voting threshold
>>> includes the proportionality, the raising of the issue did not need to.
>>>
>>> 2.4.3  Chair election  - changed the line to read:
>>>
>>> A Chair can serve, at maximum, 2 full one year terms[SE1] consecutively.
>>> There must be at least one intervening term before a member can be
>>> elected again as chair;[AD2]
>>>
>>> [SE1]For consideration:  Has there been discussion about when the terms
>>> would begin/end?  That could be specified in here, but not required.
>>>
>>> [AD2]not really.  Basically that gets defined on an election by
>>> election basis.  I was criticized once for making the charter too long
>>> by getting too much into detail.  This sort of thing does not seem to
>>> really need codification, especially since creating a generic rule can
>>> get confusing.  On the other hand, I think there was an ambiguity about
>>> whether a chair could serve again in the future, so I added
>>> clarification.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Anyone have something else to add?
>>>
>>> Assuming the constituency process is approved, I think the changes Sam
>>> made were mostly ok.  None of my comments is really big, except for
>>> perhaps the one about big and small organizations that create an empty
>>> spot for many of our small organization that are not big enough to be
>>> small under the staff' definition.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> a.
>>>
>>> <NCSG Charter-2011-02-11_Amber-Debbie.doc>
>>> ----
>>> Everything about this list: http://info.n4c.eu/sympa/info/ncsg-ec
>>
>>
>> ----
>> Everything about this list: http://info.n4c.eu/sympa/info/ncsg-policy
>
>
>
>
>IP JUSTICE
>Robin Gross, Executive Director
>1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA  94117  USA
>p: +1-415-553-6261    f: +1-415-462-6451
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