The dark side of take down requests

[Alex Gakuru]

Recording customer support calls is a great idea! I'll encourage consumers
over here to record whenever possible. Without which their later complaints
often turn into accusatory "he said, she said" customer vs. support staff
contests. Thanks!

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Marc Perkel <marc at churchofreality.org>wrote:

>  It's interesting that Kathy mentioned Godaddy and take down requests. I
> have a personal story about what happened with Godaddy taking out an entire
> data center due to a spam complaint. I was hosted at the data center and a
> friend of mine owns it and he had me make the call knowing that I'm good at
> getting results. The data center was called nectartech.com.
>
> What happened was that some customer got hacked and was sending spam. The
> customer was using nectartech.com name servers as was most of their
> customers. On Friday January 13th around 5:00pm Godaddy suspended the
> nectartech.com domain. And it was a 3 day weekend. What happened then was
> a legendary story about how I managed to get nectartech.com back online in
> spite of Godaddy's suspention.
>
> This is a great anecdotal story about what can happen when registrars go
> wild with domain suspension. You can read about it all over the internet by
> googling godaddy and nectartech. What I did was to record the phone call
> with Godaddy support and post it on the Internet/ About 18 hours later,
> service was restored.
>
> The thread starts here:
>
> http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=477562
>
> And the recording with Godaddy is here:
>
> http://marc.perkel.com/audio/godaddy.mp3
>
> It speaks to the problem Kathy talks about when it comes to due process. In
> this case it was resolved due to some unique skills that aren't available to
> most people. But if anyone needs an example of what happens when a registrar
> wrongly suspends a domain, is one says it all.
>
> On 6/28/2010 1:33 AM, Alex Gakuru wrote:
>
> Carlos,
>
>  Would you be in a position to assert our voices on this WG?
>
>  kindly,
>
>  Alex
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Kathy Kleiman <Kathy at kathykleiman.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Carlos and All,
>> I attended the same session and had similar concerns to those of Carlos.
>> On the good side, for the first time in my recollection of these
>> discussions, law enforcement at least discussed and answered questions about
>> the importance of due process and data protection/privacy laws.
>>
>> on the downside, the road to registrars (and their RAA contract changes)
>> is being paved with a request for every sort of monitoring and takedown
>> request. Christine Jones, the respected General Counsel of GoDaddy,
>> complained bitterly about this in the Public Forum.
>>
>> The other downside is that, in such an important Working Group, there is
>> no NCUC representative. I know there are too many things going on, and too
>> many important issues, but this one is central. If you can put someone on
>> the WG (which has much more work to go), then NCUC's insights,
>> understandings, and concerns for due process and the limits of the scope and
>> mission of ICANN will have a much stronger voice than comments alone.
>>
>> Best,
>> Kathy
>>
>>
>>  I will be happy to try and help.
>>>
>>> fraternal regards
>>>
>>> --c.a.
>>>
>>> On 06/24/2010 07:28 AM, Alex Gakuru wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Wendy Seltzer<wendy at seltzer.com>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Thanks Carlos,
>>>>> We should include you in drafting public comments on the RAA report
>>>>> which
>>>>> attached the law enforcement recommendations.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I second Carlos inclusion on the drafters team.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  I think at least some of the law enforcement representatives are
>>>>> concerned
>>>>> about balance, and perhaps we can acknowledge their concerns while
>>>>> recommending safeguards and due process requirements to oppose many of
>>>>> their
>>>>> specific recommendations.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely! On our comments, please call for privacy law enforcement
>>>> representatives also?
>>>>
>>>> kindly,
>>>>
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> --Wendy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/24/2010 06:06 AM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  I have just read the transcript of the panel "Law Enforcement
>>>>>> Amendments to the RAA ", held on 21 June, 2010 during the Brussels
>>>>>> ICANN
>>>>>> meeting. The panel was chaired by ALAC's Cheryl Langdon-Orr. Everyone
>>>>>> seemed to be sort of happy of sharing a discussion room full of police
>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not understand the role law enforcers are supposed to play in
>>>>>> defining ICANN policies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Law enforcers such as the FBI, Interpol etc work on a very simple
>>>>>> paradigm: they follow orders, and the more information they get, the
>>>>>> better to fulfill the orders they ought to follow. So they will always
>>>>>> defend the idea that all private data should be recorded and made
>>>>>> available to them whenever they deem necessary. It simply makes their
>>>>>> job easier, and this is enough for them, and is all we will hear from
>>>>>> them, whatever the nice dressing of their discourses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, ICANN should be looking for appropriate policies which abide
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> internationally recognized human rights principles. This is the realm
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> legislators, policy-makers, regulators -- not law enforcers -- and
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> are the organizations ICANN should be talking to in deciding policies
>>>>>> regarding balancing privacy rights with security.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If decisions regarding the users' / consumers' rights to privacy are
>>>>>> going to be taken on the advice of the police, I do not think we will
>>>>>> arrive at a good end of this story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --c.a.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Wendy Seltzer -- wendy at seltzer.org
>>>>> Fellow, Silicon Flatirons Center at University of Colorado Law School
>>>>> Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet&  Society at Harvard University
>>>>> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html
>>>>> http://www.chillingeffects.org/
>>>>> https://www.torproject.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
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