EC deliberations on WGIG nominations

[Milton Mueller]

>>> hcadiz at ph.net 9/3/2004 10:08:11 PM >>>

  I agree with these names.  I would rather have Kilnam
for AP but if he is not able to work because of an injury,
Paul Wilson is OK with me.

  My apologies for not having participated in the chat session.
Our firewall system crashed that night and I had to do the
system reconfig myself.


>>> "Valerie Gordon" <valerie_gordon at hotmail.com> 9/6/2004 6:37:34 AM >>>
Milton I am still on the road(Barbados) but running home from the hurricane today. The list looks fine.
Please proceed.
 
Valerie

IM SESSION LOG <some jokes edited> (9/2/2004, 9:30am - 11:00 am EDT)

Never give out your password or credit card 
number in an instant  message conversation.

wellings at epic.org says:
oh that's funny
  
  Claude has been added to the conversation.
  
wellings at epic.org says:
yay
Milton says:
aha, here he is
wellings at epic.org says:
who did that?
Milton says:
I think I did. there is an "invite someone to this conversation"  button
Claude says:
Hello!
Claude says:
Suddenly I feel so online.
Milton says:
 
Claude says:
I'l have to refresh my firewall, I feel vulnarable.
Claude says:
OK, Are you still there?
Milton says:
well, if it's only us three, we may as well have stuck with  iliya.de
Claude says:
Well, may I welcome you to this brand new chatroom cortesy of  Microsoft.
wellings at epic.org says:
nope. shall we give em a minute?  i can go and send a quick  reminder e-mail.   Thank you for the welcome  "against_my_principles"
Milton says:
sure, send them a message
wellings at epic.org says:
Claude says:
Claude? Oh, you mean claude Shannon, I guess?
Milton says:
I discussed the WGIG with John Mathiason yesterday (a colleague  with lots of UN experience). He says that it would be very  unusual, if not unprecedented, for a Secretary-General's WG not  to support financially the travel of its members.
Milton says:
claude shannon, the towering mathematical genius, welcome
Claude says:
I love it - MS boosts out my identity and I do not now how.  Anyway, I registered as Claude Shannon, a enginer
Milton says:
ok, I get it
Claude says:
 -- who said that the "digital revolution" would change the  world.
Claude says:
He said that 1948.
wellings at epic.org says:
I wonder how much time the wg members will have to spend  travelling, etc. - whether they can work regular jobs as well
Milton says:
what about logging of this conversation? Adam wants to look over  our shoulders... 
wellings at epic.org says:
under view, there's something about conversation history. we just  have to figure out how to use it. Otherwise, copy and paste.  
wellings at epic.org says:
http://help.msn.com/EN_US/frameset.asp?INI=macmsgv40.ini&H_VER=2. 6&H_APP=MSN%20Messenger
Milton says:
Frannie, stop swearing
Claude says:
As I said, I just join, you organise it this time.  
wellings at epic.org says:
sorry, can't help it
Milton says:
ok, copy and paste works. you just use "select all" under edit  and then copy and paste to a text file
wellings at epic.org says:
You can save a specific Messenger conversation as a Web page that  you can view by using a Web browser. This is a good way to save a  specific conversation for later viewing without keeping the  entire history.
Claude says:
Are we going to start or what?
Milton says:
yes, let's
Milton says:
Let's start with Africa. 
   Technical: Adiel Akplogan
    Policy: Olivier Nana Nzepa, Anriette Esterhuysen, Thierry
Amoussogbo

Milton says:
Adiel is someone associated with the emergent AFRINIC, i.e., 
the address registry for Africa
wellings at epic.org says:
Olivier would be good.  What else do you know about Adiel?
Milton says:
how much do you know about Olivier??
ok, so frannie, you have worked with Olivier recently? All I know  is that he showed up for 2 ICANN meetings, joined ncuc, is very  friendly, and is associated with thierry's african list  discussion IG issues
Claude says:
I for my part can only say that I feel unqualified to judge.
wellings at epic.org says:
he's also very well connected to the NGO community there, head of  the african wsis caucus, and chaired the tunisia crazy meeting...  ie "capable of working in an intensly politicized environment"
Milton says:
that;s great
Milton says:
I did not know about the Tunisia meeting. 
wellings at epic.org says:
I think he's responsive and very well involved - I'd like to  nominate him
Milton says:
so you prefer him over Anriette and Thierry?
wellings at epic.org says:
there's a video on andy carvin's blog of the almost-brawl
wellings at epic.org says:
I only know Thierry through here so others would know better than  I - I was hoping he'd be on this "chat"
Milton says:
whatever we decide, we must run the african selections by  Thierry, get some discussion, and confirmation
wellings at epic.org says:
agreed
Milton says:
what about anriette then?
wellings at epic.org says:
what did you say about adiel - did I miss that?
Milton says:
Adiel I know little about, except that he is making presentations  about AfriNIC.
Milton says:
He therefore seems to have strong technical qualifications and to  be someone like Raul of LAC, with a foot in CS, business and  technical camps
wellings at epic.org says:
how strong is his foot in CS?
Milton says:
don't know, we would have to rely on theirry for that
wellings at epic.org says:
okay, well. I'd say, that if he's strongly recommended by  Thierry, it would be good to nominate Adiel and Olivier.  If he  isn't as highly recommended, I'd like to go out of the 1 tech, 1  policy framework and nominate Olivier and Anriette
wellings at epic.org says:
thoughts?
Claude says:
OK, let'sl see what Thierry has to add.
wellings at epic.org says:
okay. Asia?
Milton says:
yes, I'd wait for Thierry. I think I would prefer Olivier and  Adiel, but would want T. to confirm it. Nothing against Anriette,  of course, just think it is important to not overrepresent one  org. (APC)
wellings at epic.org says:
assuming we nominate karen for europe
Milton says:
On Asia, I learned that Kilnam Chon, who would be GREAT for the  technical person, had a climbing accident which nearly destroyed  his pelvis and some other bones, and is recovering, will not be  able to travel until Feb.  
wellings at epic.org says:
oh god. that's terrible
Milton says:
I have great confidence in Eung Hwi Chun, IF he is supported for  travel and If he is committed to do it. 
wellings at epic.org says:
chun over aizu?
Milton says:
Eung Hwi is deeply embedded in the Korean ccTLD and IG community,  has ties to the cctld operator KRNIC but has nevertheless  remained independent and critical of it and the national govt  policies.
wellings at epic.org says:
and pindar wong vs paul wilson
Milton says:
Yes, I would prefer Chun over Izumi for a variety of complex  reasons. Izumi is very visible and would be a strong player,  which is good, however, he is mainly concerned with process  issues - representation of netizens, etc. and i think that the  WGIG will need to have more positions on substantive policy  issues, which i think chun is better at
wellings at epic.org says:
okay. good reasoning
Milton says:
by the way, did horacio ever respond to this meeting notice
wellings at epic.org says:
nope
wellings at epic.org says:
don't know what happened to everyone. 
Milton says:
OK, we will have to run Asian selections by him via email. I'm  sure he will respond
Milton says:
On Paul Wilson v. Pindar, I think it is an easy choice. However,  I am not completely happy with either one. Wilson is great as a  RIR representative. you couldn't ask for a more accessible and  intelligent person. problem is his "CS" status. This has been  discussed on our list and on the caucus list as well
wellings at epic.org says:
oh, why?
Milton says:
btw horacio agreed with me on the list re: Pindar being more of a  business rep than a CS rep
wellings at epic.org says:
sounds like we're going with Paul
Milton says:
Another alternative is to nominate Chon subject to health reasons  and Wilson as alternate. 
wellings at epic.org says:
Claude, you there?
Claude says:
Yes.
wellings at epic.org says:
I don't want to put that kind of responsibility on someone who's  enduring such difficulties in life.  It's more than travel
wellings at epic.org says:
If he'd really like to do it despite his health, then great, but  I can't imagine going through that and taking on this task
Claude says:
I would put my trust in Chun and agree that Pindar Wong has close  ties to business.
Milton says:
yes, the approach i suggested would make it easy for him to  decline if he wanted to.
wellings at epic.org says:
i understand
Claude says:
We can ask Chon (about whom I do not know enough to judge)
Milton says:
but it may be just a waste of time to try to play things so  finely, so maybe we should just nominate Wilson, or no one at all
Milton says:
I did ask Chon, he didn't quite say no, he just said that he  wouldn't be able to travel until Feb. 
Claude says:
I'm ... uneasy with discussing someones health on a public list.
Milton says:
Well, Kilnam put a powerpoint file with X-rays of his pelvis up  on the Internet
wellings at epic.org says:
oh well that's good to know. I'd say if he's miles better than  Wilson we should do the first suggestion, if not, then we should  pick Wilson.  No need to make him look like a second choice to  the working group.
wellings at epic.org says:
don't ya think? I think we should present them as having the  desired qualifications... our top choices
Milton says:
OK, subject to confirmation by Horacio, I'll go with Wilson.  Also, Eung Hwi is closely associated with Kilnam, and both are  from Korea. 
wellings at epic.org says:
great. Europe?
Milton says:
tough choices here on the policy side
wellings at epic.org says:
I know.  I'd really like to see what Marco Cappato does with this  role
wellings at epic.org says:
wish we could nominate Vittorio, Karen and Marco
Claude says:
I have tried to find out more about Marco and probably will get  some responses by MdEPs.
Milton says:
so do i
Milton says:
when would you receive these responses from MdEPs?
Claude says:
Ah, within this week.
Claude says:
It's just that I never heard of him so far.
Claude says:
EP is slowly recovering from last elections.
wellings at epic.org says:
It would be good to have either Karen or Anriette as a nominee.   I know this is treating them like they're interchangeable, one  human being, but they're both great and work together so well  anyway
Claude says:
Long holidays.
Claude says:
Karen is my favourite, after all that I have heard about her.
wellings at epic.org says:
she rocks
Milton says:
He has his own domain http://www.marcocappato.it/ 
Milton says:
What have you heard about Karen? any direct experience? 
Claude says:
Yes, I know that marco has a domain, but since he is European, I  wanted some first-hand impressions.
Milton says:
ok
wellings at epic.org says:
he's great on privacy, on intellectual property, on governance.  Karen has direct experience with the ICT TF - a long history of  experience from what I understand
wellings at epic.org says:
My colleague here from Belgium is a huge fan of Cappato - I could  ask him to give more info
Claude says:
I have no "direct experience" about Karen (flights to London are  about €20,- at the moment, but I have no time).
Claude says:
But everyone I asked spoke in the highest tones of her.
Milton says:
We could create a "global/nonregional" category and put Karen  into that. It's appropriate anyway, she's part of a global NGO  and is Australian nationality, lives in Europe.
Milton says:
  hope your ears are ok  after all those high tones
Claude says:
Jaja. You know I meant respect.
Claude says:
My son just switched on his children song CD, which makes it a  bit more difficult to think in English.
wellings at epic.org says:
with a deeper network and more visibility (having been on the  European Parliament) Cappato might have a big impact, but she's  tough, knowledgeable and so involved and I really want her to be  on there as well.
Milton says:
ha. i have chased my son out of the room, fortunately, but  another invasion may be imminent
Claude says:
Nice Germanism, anyway.
wellings at epic.org says:
< )
Milton says:
so, fw, what did you think of my global category idea
wellings at epic.org says:
wish I was listening to a german childrens'  CD
Claude says:
The EP has certainly grown. I am not always ... convinced the EU  is on the right track.
wellings at epic.org says:
love the global category idea - love it
Milton says:
would you say it.....um, "rocks"?
Claude says:
Well, we still have this limit of about 10 people.
wellings at epic.org says:
it so rocks
wellings at epic.org says:
where did the limit come from?
Claude says:
It's a self-imposed limit that we deducted from general political  experience and Miltons shoe size.
Milton says:
so we are dumping Meryem?
wellings at epic.org says:
I wouldn't say dumping, cuz she's great too... that's why she's  on this list.  But I'd say the choice is between the other two in  my book
wellings at epic.org says:
Meryem is excellent on human rights, but the other two are as  well and I think have been more involved in IG
Milton says:
ok, what about vittorio? 
Claude says:
I agree to Frannie.
wellings at epic.org says:
I'd like Vittorio to get the tech nomination
Claude says:
Vittorio... hm. He's pretty unique on the "technical" list. No  technicans in Europe? But the "Politicians" are stronger in my  view.
wellings at epic.org says:
Marc never nominated anyone did he
Milton says:
there are pluses and negatives imho. Plus: he is ALAC, although  its claim to represent "the public" is fairly weak, Vittorio is  committed to the idea anyway; his technical knowledge is quite  good. Negative: he is not a strong force, fairly junior, may not  have the stature needed  
wellings at epic.org says:
I agree with all, except I'd say that when he speaks up he's  great - always good suggestions and speaks diplomatically and  with experience. He's been very involved so his stature is  building... and as you say, there aren't many other European  techicians for the pickins!
Milton says:
there are lots, we just didn't get any nominated
Claude says:
Well, Adam's comment was right that this is more something for  the "policy" part of NCUC.
wellings at epic.org says:
Agreed.  Roessler, Keller... that's all I know
So are we choosing Vittorio?
Milton says:
what does Mr. Shannon say, please calculate a result for us
Claude says:
Oh dear.
Claude says:
If we push Karen into the international category...
Claude says:
That would leave Vittorio and Marco.
Milton says:
Yes...
Claude says:
If we place Karen in Europe, I for my part would vote for Karen  and Marco.
Milton says:
that's another option
Milton says:
creating a special category for Karen could look a bit suspicious
Claude says:
The technical/political thing is just a suggestion, anyway.
Claude says:
Time warning: I have only a few minutes left.
Milton says:
Karen could "pass" as technical. APC got its start as ISPs, I  think
Claude says:
(yn)
Milton says:
Ok, what about North America? Iliya, you put Drake's name forward  - any reason for that other than that Jeanette told you to?  
Claude says:
Well, also I wanted to see how you reacted.
Milton says:
so how did I react? 
Claude says:
We call that a "balloon" in German. Let it rise and see who  shoots it down.
wellings at epic.org says:
oh no.. we better hurry.  I think it would be fine to create the  global category... after all her work is global... this process  is global
Milton says:
but there is no real support for him from you? 
wellings at epic.org says:
:-#
wellings at epic.org says:
I say let's go with Karl and Susan
Claude says:
Relatively well. But you, ah, smelled the roast. Another  expression.
Milton says:
There is strong support for Karl. And if anyone has a right to  claim an ability to represent CS on this WGIG, he does. Of  course, there is strong opposition to him as well, which needs to  be recognized. 
wellings at epic.org says:
Bill could actually be in the global category with Karen.   Smelled the roast?  That's great. What does it mean?
Claude says:
No, I am fine with having discussed him as a candidate, he would  certainly be good on the job.
Claude says:
Well, if you smell the roast you know that it is only a trap.
  
wellings at epic.org says:
Karl's one of the best on this list from all regions in my  opinion.  I really want to support his participation in the WG.   Ah, I like "smelled the roast" 
 
Milton says:
For the record, I support Karl but am concerned about his ability  to actively forge political deals that can get things done,  however this is less of a problem in a WG writing a report than  it was on the Board.
Claude says:
Karl and Susan are a good choice. Like everyone, I ama bit   uncertain about Karl but willing to trust him.
  
Claude says:
However, I think he might be considered to have too difficult a  past by some pople higher up in the decision chain.
wellings at epic.org says:
thank you. who are we talking about?
Claude says:
It's a pity, because this is probably what some people at ICANN  want.
Claude says:
Karl.
Milton says:
Karl would be supported by some higher ups as well. Susan is a  law professor with good background in ICANN and connections to  other issues. One reason I favor her over Bill is ideological  diversity. I.e., what I know of Bill's views would be represented  well by Karen Banks but Susan has a different perspective that  favors decentralized decision making
wellings at epic.org says:
Ah. great. I support karl and susan
Claude says:
Well, it's OK with me.
wellings at epic.org says:
would you prefer something else?
No, it's OK. I'm just trying to mask my enthusiasm.
wellings at epic.org says:
8-|  don't have a mask, but how about the glasses
Milton says:
Iliya, not claude, ok Adam?
Claude says:
Huh?
wellings at epic.org says:
:-*
wellings at epic.org says:
:-#
Milton says:
oh stop
wellings at epic.org says:
okay, latin america?
wellings at epic.org says:
I'd choose Carlos for policy and I don't know the techies
Claude says:
I'm afraid, but you will have to go there on your own. I have to  leave now.
Milton says:
One thing to note is that Erick sent me a private message  withdrawing his name from policy, for "personal reasons"
Milton says:
He authorized me to forward that message to you. I will do so if  I can find it buried under my inbox
wellings at epic.org says:
okay. good to know.
Claude says:
Once more, I am unable to decide.
Milton says:
Agree that Carlos is good for policy, can't tell whether he wants  to do it, he showed little interest in the nomination exercise
Milton says:
Latin America
    Technical: Raul Echeberria and Florencio Utreras
    Policy: Oscar Robles (LACTLD), Carlos Afonso (RITS),  Francisco
Lopez-Bermudez 

wellings at epic.org says:
Iliya, we'll continue the conversation over e-mail... get  Thierry, Horacio and Valerie's opinions, etc.
wellings at epic.org says:
maybe he showed little interest because he wanted to be  nominated??
Milton says:
Raul is acceptable to me as technical person. He is responsible,  has some ties to CS, participated actively in NCUC a long time  ago. 
Milton says:
but we have that RIR problem again. 
Claude says:
OK. Talk to you later. Let me see if I find something... What  about this:     
wellings at epic.org says:
didn't want to suggest himself?
Milton says:
I interpreted it differently. 
wellings at epic.org says:
I didn't know how to interpret it
wellings at epic.org says:
what about oscar?
Milton says:
but carlos is a very good choice given that he spans ncuc and  wsis-cs
Milton says:
oscar is a cctld person. when he represented ncdnhc within ICANN  he was very silent and did little, so it is hard to tell what he  would do. Raul would be much better. 
wellings at epic.org says:
I think we should pick Carlos and Raul then and see what Horacio  has to say
Milton says:
you mean valerie? 
Milton says:
but what about this name you put forward, francisco  lopez-bermudez
wellings at epic.org says:
yes, Valerie
wellings at epic.org says:
I like him, he's helpful on the human right issues, but I'd  prefer Carlos because of his involvement on the CS IG caucus and  in NCUC 
Milton says:
ok, well, Raul and Carlos are pretty good choices, imho -- IF  Carlos is interested. Problem is, he is so good for these kinds  of things that he gets nominated for all of them.
wellings at epic.org says:
human right - ha - meant Human Rights.  What does the "Right"  know about that
wellings at epic.org says:
Well, he didn't write and say no, so I think Carlos and Raul  should be our suggestions for the NCUC
Milton says:
ok,good so now we have to prepare the "winnowed" list and send it  to Horacio, Valerie and Thierry.

wellings at epic.org says:
so we've got...
wellings at epic.org says:
Africa: olivier and adiel
wellings at epic.org says:
Asia: paul wilson and chun
wellings at epic.org says:
Europe: vittorio and Marco
wellings at epic.org says:
karen as global
wellings at epic.org says:
LAC: carlos and raul
wellings at epic.org says:
North America: karl and susan
wellings at epic.org says:
look right?
Milton says:
yes, but unconfirmed by the needed plurality of EC. 
wellings at epic.org says:
correct... but this is what we're sending to them
wellings at epic.org says:
i know you wrote that just for Adam
Milton says:
naw.....
Milton says:
 
wellings at epic.org says:
:-#:-*:-#:-*
Milton says:
:-#:-*:-#:-* that's how your emoticons look
wellings at epic.org says:
Alright.  Will you prepare it? And can you save this conversation  history since you weren't kicked off three times
Milton says:
yes, I will save the log, and send a list via the ecncuc list to  the three
wellings at epic.org says:
I see yours as I sent them - do they look funny?
Milton says:
:-#:-*:-#:-* -- does that look funny to you?
wellings at epic.org says:
funny ha ha, not funny odd though.
Milton says:
Although we will use the ecncuc list that goes to all, would you  like to take responsibility for contacting one ro two of the  three if that doesn't work? 
wellings at epic.org says:
meaning, if they don't respond on the list? Sure
Milton says:
yes. ok? are we done? 
wellings at epic.org says:
we're done.  you need to send me an e-mail but I'll remind you in  a bit