[ncdnhc-discuss] ICANN controlled by governments

Thu Feb 28 14:12:22 CET 2002

Dear Dany,

Thank you for your note.  I can imagine that my suggestion that US
government control over ICANN has at least one obvious benefit over
multi-governemnt control over ICANN, and that concerns the issue of free
speech, protected more agressively in the USA than just about anywhere else,
as it relates for example to political expression.  And having used as an
example of contrary traditions the very recent French ruling in the Yahoo
case, I am please to hear from someone who rises to the defense of the
French court.

You asked for a "refined" notion of free speech, and I welcome speculation
on how this might play out in a world where the ICANN board and funding is
controlled by various governments around the world, as well as speculation
on ICANN future role in enforcing lots of other laws as well.

I do not think USA laws are in generally the best in the world, spend much
time in the USA complaining about various US laws, and much time in global
fora helping countries resist US trade policies on intellectual property
rights and other areas, and we certainly are appalled by various US regimes
on IPR, that often themselves limit speech.

We do, however, see the future of free speech on the Internet as a big big
deal, and are not at all ready to embrace the notion that every country's
notion of limits on that speech deserve to be enforced worldwide, including
for example the many examples of cross-border enforcement of various
national speech and IPR regimes.

I believe the "benefits" of US 1st amendment protections are more apparently
in repressive regimes like China or Egypt than they are in France.   I am
liking too of those countries, and people I know in those countries who
believe the Internet provides an import opportunity to exercise freedom to
speak and to read.

I can appreciate how some others may find hate speech and other similiar
things so repulsive that they are willing to live with a different system.
But we are reluctant to say the least in giving up the freedom we have now,
particularly given the range of national laws that one is facing.

 Jamie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dany Vandromme" <vandrome at renater.fr>
To: "James Love" <james.love at cptech.org>
Cc: "ncc" <discuss at icann-ncc.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ncdnhc-discuss] ICANN controlled by governments

> James Love wrote:
> >
> > If ICANN is controlled by the US government, everyone benefits from the
US
> > 1st amendment, which is a strong protection for free speech.  If ICANN
is
> > controlled by governments in general, things will change.  Here is a
recent
> > French court decision regarding Yahoo.  jamie
> -
> Hi Jamie,
> This is an interesting remark, but the notion of free speech may deserve
> to be refined a bit further.
> In the present context, I am wondering whether the case is related to
> free speech only or to respecting a national law, voted by legitimaly
> elected representatives* (and applicable for that country). I guess that
> it should not hurt the French parliament to know that US is somehow
> "protecting" the possibility of advertising or selling anything
> (including items mentionned below), but for this to be performed in
> France, it becomes non-compliant with the French law, as it was voted by
> the parliament.
>
> 1) May be the issue is to admit that the 1st amendment of the US
> constitution is a kind of worldwide law. I doubt that this respects the
> right of other countries to edict their own laws for themselves.
>
> 2) In your first line, you use the word "benefit". I am not sure that
> benefit is an adequate wording.
>
> 3) Having ICANN controlled by US law is a matter of legal context for
> this Company, and would not permit its actions to transgress other
> country laws, It may, at the contrary, sum up with conflicts, which
> could be avoided with a worldwide cooperation. Imposing your 1st
> amendment worldwide will not solve this, it will eventually generate
> conflicts, which could be avoided with cooperation between countries.
> That is one of the scope of ICANN: go away from a single country control.
>
> Comment?
> Dany
>
> * In the present context, I would add: with a trusted election
process.....
>
> >
> > ---------------
> > By Reuters
> > February 26, 2002, 1:30 PM PT
> >
> > PARIS--A French criminal court said Tuesday it would try Internet giant
> > Yahoo and its former chief executive for allegedly condoning war crimes
by
> > allowing the sale of Nazi memorabilia on Yahoo sites.
> > Former Yahoo CEO Timothy Koogle faces a maximum sentence of five years
and a
> > $39,800 fine if found guilty--a verdict that could have broad
implications
> > for international free-speech rights in the Internet age.
> >
> > France ordered the California-based company in November 2000 to stop
people
> > in France from accessing the sites, but a U.S. federal judge ruled last
> > November that Yahoo was not bound to comply with French laws governing
> > Internet content on U.S.-based sites.
> >
> > The court ruled Tuesday that French law still applied to
English-language
> > sites and said it would hear allegations Yahoo was inciting racial
hatred by
> > allowing French surfers to buy Nazi books, daggers, concentration-camp
> > uniforms and SS badges on its Yahoo.com service.
> >
> > Three French Jewish and anti-Semitism groups pressed for the criminal
> > charges in October. The court ruled Tuesday that interested parties
would
> > meet May 7 to set a trial date.
> >
> > It is illegal under French law to exhibit or sell objects with racist
> > overtones, and Yahoo's French portal carries no Nazi auctions. But
French
> > surfers, like all others, can switch to Yahoo.com services with a click
of
> > the mouse.
> >
> > --------------------
> > James Love, mailto:love at cptech.org, http://www.cptech.org
> > voice +1.202.387.8030, mobile +1.202.361.3040, fax +1.202.234.5176
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss at icann-ncc.org
> > http://www.icann-ncc.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> --
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>
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