[ncdnhc-discuss] Names council candidates

[Chun Eung Hwi]

Dear Alejandro, Dany and Kent,

In reading your emails, I could understand what could make people
confused. Generally speaking, when we use the term of consumer, we use the
term as one role in economy. As such, we use the term of producer when we
talk about economic aspects. This basically assumes that all people is
consumers as well as producers.  I don't know why I should explain this
common sense, but....

When we use the term of at large members, it has the same dimension of the
meaning. Here, the term of individual is different from people or human
beings in general. In this context, individuals are defined as consumers
or customers against providers. It simply means role or status in social
relations. Hence, even though somebody could work in American Online,
he/she could become an at large member as one individual user, as one
internet user, as one consumer, as one customer, but not as an American
Online worker.  And at large director is the representative of those
users, not people who are working in their work place.

I hope this discussion could help to understand the concept of at large
member.


Regards,

Chun Eung Hwi
------------------------------------------------------------
Chun Eung Hwi
General Secretary, PeaceNet | phone:     (+82) 2- 583-3033
Seoul Yangchun P.O.Box 81   |   pcs:     (+82) 019-259-2667 
Seoul, 158-600, Korea       | eMail:   ehchun at peacenet.or.kr   
------------------------------------------------------------


On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, Kent Crispin wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 10:16:20AM +0900, Chun Eung Hwi wrote:
> > > > You are right except that at least less than half of at large board
> > > > members would certainly make ICANN less accountable.
> > > -
> > > I do not agree. All SO elected directors are really elected and
> > > accountable. I do not feel that it is the case today for the at-large
> > > elected ones, since the atlarge is completely undefined and unorganized.
> > > My point is not to argue about figures (6 or 9 for instance), but to be
> > > sure about the real accountability. To me, the ALSC goes in the right
> > > direction and answer all 5 questions which he had to answer.
> > 
> > I cannot see what you disagree. 
> > Do you agree or not that less than half of at large board members would
> > make ICANN less accountable even when there is some natural link or
> > channel between elected at large board members and the voting base as you
> > argued? 
> 
> ALL board members, with the exception of the original board, are elected
> and accountable, and are CURRENTLY in the majority.  There were 9 
> original directors, there are 19 now, only 4 of the 19 are from that 
> original 9.  ELECTED directors completely control the board.
> 
> > Is what you mean that the number of board members has noting to do
> > with accountability even when at large board members have clear and
> > obvious their voting base?
> 
> There is absolutely nothing clear or obvious about the voting base of 
> the At-Large directors.  You don't know anything at all about them; you 
> do know a great deal more about the voting base of the SO-elected 
> directors. 
> 
> > Then, do you think any number of at large board
> > members could make ICANN accountable?
> 
> Nope.  At-large directors are LESS accountable than SO elected 
> directors.  The at-large directors were elected by an electorate that 
> almost certainly simply doesn't understand what is going on.
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Are you assuming that individuals could be commercial?
> 
> Where have you been? Of course individuals can be commercial.  There is
> absolutely no question about it. 
> 
> > Do you have the concept of commercial individual? So, you are thinking
> > that it is naive to think that individuals and non commercial are
> > identical? This is very weird idea. At large members are simply individual
> > users who are regarded as consumer or customer. I have never heard such
> > words as commercial consumer or commercial customer.
> 
> Ever heard of "individual professional"? How about individual doctors
> and individual lawyers and individual computer consultants and
> individual artists and individual web designers?
> 
> In fact Songbird hosts web sites for individuals, and the majority of 
> them are highly commercial.  Even some apparently non-commercial sites 
> have a commercial side -- for example, a poet who is selling a book of 
> children's poems.
> 
> 
> > > See remark above. I certainly do not agree with this last statement.
> > > There is to much opposition between commercial vs non commercial in all
> > > ICANN debates. This is biaising the whole discussion in everything. I am
> > > afraid that it is also going to biais the current DNSO director election.
> > 
> > If it is called as bias(?), it is indispendable bias.
> > Why are you afraid of that? As one consumer, I am not afraid of arguing
> > my rights against commercial bias.
> 
> You are in a tiny minority, then.  *Most* people have to work for a 
> living at some commercial endeavor or another.  
> 
> -- 
> Kent Crispin                               "Be good, and you will be
> kent at songbird.com                           lonesome." -- Mark Twain
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at icann-ncc.org
> http://www.icann-ncc.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>