<div dir="ltr"><a class="gmail_plusreply" id="plusReplyChip-0" href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" tabindex="-1">@farzaneh badii</a> thank you for your thoughts. Stephanie started the draft and I made some modest contributions into the draft. Since Stephanie is the primary pen holder and I'm a contributing pen holder, I will let her have the honor of sharing the document when she is able to conclude the review.<div><br></div><div>Now Stephanie and I did some fact-finding/research across the aisle and what we discovered that the best way to approach this is to first make a case that NPOC gets a seat as earlier mentioned since NCSG is the mothership to both constituencies. I do share your concerns and if you follow some of the old conversations, ICANN is not ready to do a substantial change to the bylaws but to see how we can move a bit of things around while not getting opposition for our strategy from the other side of the aisle.</div><div><br></div><div>Ordinarily, BC has two seats for Big and Small businesses, GAC has a seat they are not using. BC will definitely not give up one of the seats when we start saying three seats for NCSG. One good way to look at this is to also approach this through the council which I'm aware a diplomatically worded statement has been passed across.</div><div><br></div><div>We need a better way of getting the message across and not asking for too much as we still have the Holistic review coming up.</div><div><br></div><div>Caleb</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><a class="gmail_plusreply" id="plusReplyChip-1" href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" tabindex="-1">@Stephanie Perrin</a> thanks for providing clarity.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 6:30 PM farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I absolutely disagree to make this a constituency matter. It is the card that they played for so long to argue that we didnt have as many constituency. As stakeholder group, if they have 3 reps we should have 3 reps. If we have one as stakeholder group they should have one. If you wanna make them smaller stop having 5 ALAC/at large delegates. No reason for that they are an advisory committee like everyone else. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I keep hearing that we should compromise on this and that and that we have better things to do. What are these better things? We are here to advance our interest. By sitting on policy positions we cannot get anywhere. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Stephanie, if you have written something great. If not we just turn my response with correction to a statement and send it off. We can’t wait forever. </div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 6:53 PM Stephanie E Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>The fault is not Caleb's it is mine. I have been working on that
draft. Judith Hellerstein was kind enough to draft the response
to the call for comments, and I had intended to circulate the
draft for comments this past weekend. Unfortunately a health
emergency in my family has dragged me away. There was quite a bit
of discussion around the meeting in Washington on this topic, and
it also had come up at Council. Council is just now preparing its
draft response to the Board. We have till the 30th and Julf is
standing by to send the final draft, so please lets not panic.<br>
</p>
<p>There is strong opposition to growing the Nomcom, as it grows it
becomes more unwieldy, and they are already working very hard. So
I would submit that asking for three delegates, just like the
commercial group, is a non-starter. However, the battle to get a
seat for NPOC, at least at the GNSO level, appears to be turning
in our favour. Please see my comments re the questions below, and
expect to see a tidied up draft comment shortly.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 2023-06-26 5:50 p.m., Raoul Plommer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Caleb,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You received that very email on 27th of April, and since
you've been preparing the draft since, perhaps you could
finally share your work with us so we could make that
statement together as a stakeholder group?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Raoul<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 21:46,
farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Where are NCSG's
joint recommendations? NCUC can reinforce the message. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Farzaneh </font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at
2:44 PM Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I believe NCUC can consolidate the response
with the NCSG's joint recommendations.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This will allow us to go out on a united front as
non-commercial.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 26, 2023
at 1:40 PM farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="auto">Benjamin,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Not only do we need to respond, we
should reach out to our friends and colleagues and
tell them what the problem is<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">. See the
responses below:</span></div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun
26, 2023 at 1:57 PM Benjamin Akinmoyeje <<a href="mailto:benakin@gmail.com" target="_blank">benakin@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Dear NCUC members,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good day and I hope your week is going
well.</div>
<div>Thank you for participating in the NCUC
Readout session. As discussed in
the meeting today, please share your
response to these questions to gather our
community views.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">ICANN
Board Chair Tripti Sinha is
requesting feedback from your
respective community groups on the </span>question
of <span>rebalancing</span> the
Nominating Committee (<span>NomCom</span>)
by *<b>30 June 2023</b>*. As noted in
the letter, the ICANN Board wishes to
engage with the <span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">community
to understand the community’s views on
this topic. The Board is specifically
seeking input on the following
questions:<br>
<br>
1. What does it mean to have a
balanced <span>NomCom</span> at a
point in time? For example, what
criteria would you apply to measure or
assess whether the<br>
<span>NomCom</span> is balanced? And
further, how can one test whether or
not the <span>NomCom</span> is
balanced? </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">A
balanced NomCom means that the noncommercial
and commercial stakeholder groups as
predicted have the same number of delegates.
For example, if the Commercial Group has three
delegates, the noncommercial group should have
three delegates. This is the least that can be
done when rebalancing.It should be remodeled
based on GNSO council composition. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"></span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
2. Do you support the view that the
current composition of the <span>NomCom </span>needs
to be <span>rebalanced</span>? Please
explain why or why not.<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Yes it
needs to be rebalanced because as we have
argued the noncommercials have fewer
delegates compared to the commercial
stakeholder group. In every ICANN group, the
commercial and noncommercial stakeholder
groups should have equal number of
delegates, irrespective of how many internal
constituencies they each have.<i style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> (SP see
above, I doubt this has support. we just
need to have members for each
constituency, bearing in mind that the
contracted parties do not have
consitutuencies, and the At Large has
regions not constituencies.)</i><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Also
the advisory committees either should be
voting delegates or non-voting delegates.
Perhaps because ICANN is privately led and
the chair of GAC is a liaison on the board
the nonvoting nomcom (which they have never
appointed) might make sense but it is
unclear why some advisory committees are
voting and some are not. <i style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</i></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<i>SP The recommendation has already been accepted to make all seats
on the NomCom voting</i><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
3. How frequently does the balance
need to be measured or assessed?<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">After
rebalancing, if the review of various ICANN
structures lead to structural changes (which
it rarely does) </span> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">then we
need to assess whether it should affect
delegation on Nomcom. <br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<i>SP I think it best, as I have said at every PC committee when the
matter ever came up, to steer as clear of structural review as
possible. Lets agree on 10 years for NomCom review once we get
this settled, unless there is a sudden need to reassess. Reviews
take time, money, staff resources, and are exhausting our
volunteers.</i><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
4. How do you suggest that the <span>NomCom</span>’s
composition be <span>rebalanced</span>?<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Same
number of delegates from Commercial and
Noncommercial stakeholders group. If CSG has
3 delegates, NCSG has to have 3 delegates
too. We don't necessarily ask for increasing
the number of our delegates but we ask to
reconsider the number of delegates CSG can
have. </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<i>SP We appear to be winning the argument on constituency
representation, lets settle for that.</i><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">5.
Who should conduct this work, and how
should it be conducted?<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">The
board should follow the third party reviewer
recommendation. </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<i>SP I believe the how refers to reallocation of NomCom reps.</i><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
6. How would your community group
prioritize consideration of this issue<br>
within your planning efforts?<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">This has
been a priority issue for NCUC and NCSG since
a long time. We are directly affected. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>SP <i>Given that the NomCom reps are supposed to act
independently of their organizations, I would avoid saying that
we are directly affected. Obviously we would have had another
seat years ago if everyone in this organization had faith in
that independence, and the GAC might have surrendered the seat
they have never used.....but we have to have a strong belief in
the independence and fair HR practices of the new NomCom that
will emerge after this review. We are the ones who are short a
seat, so clearly it has been on our priorities and it will
remain there until this fundamental injustice is corrected. To
my mind, we lack qualitative review of the actual outputs of the
NomCom, and we lack a substantive study of what the goals of a
restructured nomcom might be. ICANN is 25, and there are plenty
of folks around who have been here all that time. What does it
mean to get new blood to join ICANN from outside the membership
groups? What does the MS model need after 25 years? How did
the review committee discuss this issue? are there studies?</i></p>
<p><i>Those of you who sat on these groups, and there are several of
you out there who did, please weigh in.</i></p>
<p>Kind regards, and apologies for the failure to send the draft
this weekend as planned. Life gets in the way.....</p></div><div>
<p>Stephanie Perrin<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
Additional background on the work to
date on this topic, including by the <span>NomCom</span> Review
Implementation Working Group that<br>
was set up to implement the outcomes
of the Second <span>NomCom</span> Review
(see <a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence</a></span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
<<a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence</a>>
for each of the<br>
letters sent to all 21 SOAC leaders).
In addition, on 25 May 2023, the<br>
Chair of the Board’s Organizational
Effectiveness Committee, Katrina<br>
Sataki, and members of ICANN org’s
Reviews Support & Accountability
team<br>
gave a presentation to the GNSO
Council that covered the present<br>
structure of <span>NomCom</span>, a
brief history of the <span>rebalancing</span> matter
and<br>
forthcoming actions. As such, you may
find the presentation<br>
</span><<a href="https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/policy/2023/presentation/presentation-gnso-council-nomcom-rebalancing-revised-25may23-en.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/policy/2023/presentation/presentation-gnso-council-<span>nomcom</span>-<span>rebalancing</span>-revised-25may23-en.pdf</a>> and<br>
the recording<br>
<<a href="https://icann.zoom.us/rec/share/7pSQ37mSB5wGz8-msQS2PDpzhQ6VdJQISm2SYmWKwfFMWFM_Z6FdMsFiipNyIV-E.J55mm5SBjoZJS9d9?startTime=1684990882000" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://icann.zoom.us/rec/share/7pSQ37mSB5wGz8-msQS2PDpzhQ6VdJQISm2SYmWKwfFMWFM_Z6FdMsFiipNyIV-E.J55mm5SBjoZJS9d9?startTime=1684990882000</a>> (from<br>
<span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">00:14:10
- 00:31:38) helpful in discussing any
planned feedback with<br>
your members.</span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
<span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><b><font style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Caleb Ogundele</font></b>
<div><font style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Email: <a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a></font></div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre style="font-family:monospace">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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</blockquote></div></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Farzaneh </font></div></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><b><font color="#000000">Caleb Ogundele</font></b><div><font color="#000000">Email: <a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a></font></div></div></div>