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<p>Okay folks. I added the proposal to match the other side of the
House. Attached is a draft word document. I think if we are
going to die on the hill labelled 3 seats, we should have asked
for 3 seats in the comments prepared by Judith, and that ship has
sailed. However, I have added it to this draft. <br>
</p>
<p>I took the proposal to take GAC's seat out because I really think
the Board is not likely to entertain that proposal. If you want
it back in, make the argument as to why they should lose it....I
dont think the fact that it is an advisory body holds enough
water.....Alac has 5 reps and they are advisory.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2023-06-26 8:36 p.m., Caleb
Olumuyiwa Ogundele wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAL_ZvK6npFDOi=X5nh7Dqhn5ZLTEqagx3z8-=McZB2T7LLK=Yw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr"><a class="gmail_plusreply" id="plusReplyChip-0" href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" tabindex="-1" moz-do-not-send="true">@farzaneh badii</a> thank you for your
thoughts. Stephanie started the draft and I made some modest
contributions into the draft. Since Stephanie is the primary pen
holder and I'm a contributing pen holder, I will let her have
the honor of sharing the document when she is able to conclude
the review.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now Stephanie and I did some fact-finding/research across
the aisle and what we discovered that the best way to approach
this is to first make a case that NPOC gets a seat as earlier
mentioned since NCSG is the mothership to both constituencies.
I do share your concerns and if you follow some of the old
conversations, ICANN is not ready to do a substantial change
to the bylaws but to see how we can move a bit of things
around while not getting opposition for our strategy from the
other side of the aisle.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ordinarily, BC has two seats for Big and Small businesses,
GAC has a seat they are not using. BC will definitely not give
up one of the seats when we start saying three seats for
NCSG. One good way to look at this is to also approach this
through the council which I'm aware a diplomatically worded
statement has been passed across.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We need a better way of getting the message across and not
asking for too much as we still have the Holistic review
coming up.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Caleb</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a class="gmail_plusreply" id="plusReplyChip-1" href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" tabindex="-1" moz-do-not-send="true">@Stephanie Perrin</a> thanks
for providing clarity.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at
6:30 PM farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">I absolutely disagree to make this a
constituency matter. It is the card that they played for so
long to argue that we didnt have as many constituency. As
stakeholder group, if they have 3 reps we should have 3
reps. If we have one as stakeholder group they should have
one. If you wanna make them smaller stop having 5 ALAC/at
large delegates. No reason for that they are an advisory
committee like everyone else. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I keep hearing that we should compromise on
this and that and that we have better things to do. What are
these better things? We are here to advance our interest. By
sitting on policy positions we cannot get anywhere. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Stephanie, if you have written something
great. If not we just turn my response with correction to a
statement and send it off. We can’t wait forever. </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at
6:53 PM Stephanie E Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>The fault is not Caleb's it is mine. I have been
working on that draft. Judith Hellerstein was kind
enough to draft the response to the call for
comments, and I had intended to circulate the draft
for comments this past weekend. Unfortunately a
health emergency in my family has dragged me away.
There was quite a bit of discussion around the
meeting in Washington on this topic, and it also had
come up at Council. Council is just now preparing
its draft response to the Board. We have till the
30th and Julf is standing by to send the final
draft, so please lets not panic.<br>
</p>
<p>There is strong opposition to growing the Nomcom,
as it grows it becomes more unwieldy, and they are
already working very hard. So I would submit that
asking for three delegates, just like the commercial
group, is a non-starter. However, the battle to get
a seat for NPOC, at least at the GNSO level, appears
to be turning in our favour. Please see my comments
re the questions below, and expect to see a tidied
up draft comment shortly.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 2023-06-26 5:50 p.m., Raoul Plommer wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Caleb,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You received that very email on 27th of
April, and since you've been preparing the draft
since, perhaps you could finally share your work
with us so we could make that statement together
as a stakeholder group?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Raoul<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 26 Jun
2023 at 21:46, farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Where
are NCSG's joint recommendations? NCUC can
reinforce the message. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="verdana, sans-serif">Farzaneh </font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun
26, 2023 at 2:44 PM Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele
<<a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
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<div dir="ltr">I believe NCUC can
consolidate the response with the NCSG's
joint recommendations.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This will allow us to go out on a
united front as non-commercial.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon,
Jun 26, 2023 at 1:40 PM farzaneh badii
<<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="auto">Benjamin,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Not only do we need to
respond, we should reach out to our
friends and colleagues and tell them
what the problem is<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">.
See the responses below:</span></div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 1:57 PM
Benjamin Akinmoyeje <<a href="mailto:benakin@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">benakin@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
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<div dir="ltr">Dear NCUC
members,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good day and I hope your
week is going well.</div>
<div>Thank you for
participating in the NCUC
Readout session. As
discussed in the meeting
today, please share your
response to these questions
to gather our
community views.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">ICANN
Board Chair Tripti Sinha
is requesting feedback
from your respective
community groups on the </span>question
of <span>rebalancing</span> the
Nominating Committee (<span>NomCom</span>)
by *<b>30 June 2023</b>*.
As noted in the letter,
the ICANN Board wishes to
engage with the <span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">community
to understand the
community’s views on
this topic. The Board is
specifically seeking
input on the following
questions:<br>
<br>
1. What does it mean to
have a balanced <span>NomCom</span> at
a point in time?
For example, what
criteria would you apply
to measure or assess
whether the<br>
<span>NomCom</span> is
balanced? And further,
how can one test whether
or not the <span>NomCom</span> is
balanced? </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">A
balanced NomCom means that the
noncommercial and commercial
stakeholder groups as
predicted have the same number
of delegates. For example, if
the Commercial Group has three
delegates, the noncommercial
group should have three
delegates. This is the least
that can be done when
rebalancing.It should be
remodeled based on GNSO council
composition. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"></span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
2. Do you support the
view that the current
composition of the <span>NomCom </span>needs
to be <span>rebalanced</span>?
Please explain why or
why not.<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Yes
it needs to be rebalanced
because as we have argued the
noncommercials have fewer
delegates compared to the
commercial stakeholder group.
In every ICANN group, the
commercial and noncommercial
stakeholder groups should have
equal number of delegates,
irrespective of how many
internal constituencies they
each have.<i style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">
(SP see above, I doubt this
has support. we just need
to have members for each
constituency, bearing in
mind that the contracted
parties do not have
consitutuencies, and the At
Large has regions not
constituencies.)</i><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Also
the advisory committees either
should be voting delegates or
non-voting delegates. Perhaps
because ICANN is privately led
and the chair of GAC is a
liaison on the board the
nonvoting nomcom (which they
have never appointed) might
make sense but it is unclear
why some advisory committees
are voting and some are not. <i style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</i></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<i>SP The recommendation has already been accepted to
make all seats on the NomCom voting</i><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
3. How frequently does
the balance need to be
measured or assessed?<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">After
rebalancing, if the review of
various ICANN structures lead
to structural changes (which
it rarely does) </span> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">then
we need to assess whether it
should affect delegation on
Nomcom. <br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<i>SP I think it best, as I have said at every PC
committee when the matter ever came up, to steer as
clear of structural review as possible. Lets agree
on 10 years for NomCom review once we get this
settled, unless there is a sudden need to reassess.
Reviews take time, money, staff resources, and are
exhausting our volunteers.</i><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
4. How do you suggest
that the <span>NomCom</span>’s
composition be <span>rebalanced</span>?<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Same
number of delegates from
Commercial and Noncommercial
stakeholders group. If CSG has
3 delegates, NCSG has to have
3 delegates too. We don't
necessarily ask for increasing
the number of our delegates
but we ask to reconsider the
number of delegates CSG can
have. </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<i>SP We appear to be winning the argument on
constituency representation, lets settle for that.</i><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">5.
Who should conduct this
work, and how should it
be conducted?<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">The
board should follow the third
party reviewer recommendation.
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<i>SP I believe the how refers to reallocation of
NomCom reps.</i><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
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<div class="gmail_quote">
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
6. How would your
community group
prioritize consideration
of this issue<br>
within your planning
efforts?<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">This
has been a priority issue for
NCUC and NCSG since a long time.
We are directly affected. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>SP <i>Given that the NomCom reps are supposed to
act independently of their organizations, I would
avoid saying that we are directly affected.
Obviously we would have had another seat years ago
if everyone in this organization had faith in that
independence, and the GAC might have surrendered
the seat they have never used.....but we have to
have a strong belief in the independence and fair
HR practices of the new NomCom that will emerge
after this review. We are the ones who are short
a seat, so clearly it has been on our priorities
and it will remain there until this fundamental
injustice is corrected. To my mind, we lack
qualitative review of the actual outputs of the
NomCom, and we lack a substantive study of what
the goals of a restructured nomcom might be.
ICANN is 25, and there are plenty of folks around
who have been here all that time. What does it
mean to get new blood to join ICANN from outside
the membership groups? What does the MS model
need after 25 years? How did the review committee
discuss this issue? are there studies?</i></p>
<p><i>Those of you who sat on these groups, and there
are several of you out there who did, please weigh
in.</i></p>
<p>Kind regards, and apologies for the failure to send
the draft this weekend as planned. Life gets in the
way.....</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Stephanie Perrin<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
Additional background on
the work to date on
this topic, including by
the <span>NomCom</span> Review
Implementation Working
Group that<br>
was set up to implement
the outcomes of the
Second <span>NomCom</span> Review
(see <a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence</a></span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
<<a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence</a>>
for each of the<br>
letters sent to all 21
SOAC leaders). In
addition, on 25 May
2023, the<br>
Chair of the Board’s
Organizational
Effectiveness Committee,
Katrina<br>
Sataki, and members of
ICANN org’s Reviews
Support &
Accountability team<br>
gave a presentation to
the GNSO Council that
covered the present<br>
structure of <span>NomCom</span>,
a brief history of the <span>rebalancing</span> matter
and<br>
forthcoming actions. As
such, you may find the
presentation<br>
</span><<a href="https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/policy/2023/presentation/presentation-gnso-council-nomcom-rebalancing-revised-25may23-en.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/policy/2023/presentation/presentation-gnso-council-<span>nomcom</span>-<span>rebalancing</span>-revised-25may23-en.pdf</a>> and<br>
the recording<br>
<<a href="https://icann.zoom.us/rec/share/7pSQ37mSB5wGz8-msQS2PDpzhQ6VdJQISm2SYmWKwfFMWFM_Z6FdMsFiipNyIV-E.J55mm5SBjoZJS9d9?startTime=1684990882000" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://icann.zoom.us/rec/share/7pSQ37mSB5wGz8-msQS2PDpzhQ6VdJQISm2SYmWKwfFMWFM_Z6FdMsFiipNyIV-E.J55mm5SBjoZJS9d9?startTime=1684990882000</a>> (from<br>
<span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">00:14:10
- 00:31:38) helpful in
discussing any planned
feedback with<br>
your members.</span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
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<div dir="ltr"><b><font style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Caleb
Ogundele</font></b>
<div><font style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Email:
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<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Farzaneh </font></div>
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<span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
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<div dir="ltr"><b><font color="#000000">Caleb Ogundele</font></b>
<div><font color="#000000">Email: <a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a></font></div>
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