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    <p>I certainly agree with that Raph, and one of our goals is surely
      to help some of our members who would not have the opportunity to
      participate in face to face global Internet discussions, do so in
      comfort and with confidence. <br>
    </p>
    <p>cheers Steph<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-07-16 11:29 a.m., Raphael
      Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAPZSw-oYsezbiHhDaPKatYqAc2iTg6QTJ9d=j_aSjP6NOkgZAw@mail.gmail.com">
      
      <div dir="ltr">Hi Steph
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Much has been said already but I just want to comment on a
          specific point you raised, that is whether travel is a perk.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>One needs a lot of equipment and favorable circumstances
          for travel (the sort that in person ICANN meetings offer) to
          be a career or personal benefit. The more of this "base layer"
          you start with, the more profitable f2f experiences are; if
          you have none, then it is all burden/wasted time and no
          benefit. You can acquire some of this equipment and
          circumstances (thinking money, passport, capacity building,
          etc.) But we all start from different points, especially when
          it comes to where we grew up and what kind of socialization we
          received as children. Yes, it does go that far back: one that
          hears stories about mom and dad traveling abroad to business
          trips will necessarily be more "ready to participate" at ICANN
          than someone who's never had this kind of conversation. And
          that's just one example...</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The thing we need to work on is what can be acquired
          through the means at our (SC/Cs) disposal, while we need to
          remain keenly aware of the different starting points, and the
          things we cannot provide (like a better passport or a
          different socialization) Not that these differences imply a
          difference in worth or value at the individual level, on the
          contrary! But they do change dramatically how ready one is
          "naturally" to "participate" (for one's and others' benefit)
          in a f2f ICANN meeting. If our efforts are fostering
          broader participation do not take that into consideration,
          then they risk being fruitless. </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 12:13
          PM Stephanie E Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <p>Dorothy, I think you have summarized the real problem
              very succinctly.  Further, I think the research that Bruna
              and Louise led last year, where we polled our members
              about participation, is largely in agreement with your
              comments, and speaks to the need to solve this problem
              some how and figure out incentives.  We cannot rely, for
              our policy expertise,  on aging profs and experts, and
              whatever students they manage to attract to do the heavy
              lifting.   Because it is indeed heavy lifting....</p>
            <p>The EPDP is ending very soon (although it threatens to go
              on and on like the movie Rocky, with some of us diehards
              looking equally bloody).  The next step is the IRT, which
              will be important because we have punted a lot of the hard
              stuff to implementation.  Whoever goes there has to be one
              of those who were on the EPDP......which underscores the
              systemic isolation of those who do work on our issues.  WE
              are now in a situation where there are so few folks
              engaging with the work that if you are the one on the
              team, you wind up writing the comments on the drafts,
              summarizing our inputs etc.  Doing briefing notes for
              others has zero allure.  Who is going to make the videos? 
              I can imagine a willingness to speak, to summarize the
              issues when it is fresh in my brain....but don't ask me to
              take time out from all this to teach a class.  Mentorship
              strikes me as the only way out, but the question is what
              motivates someone to want to be mentored, and what are
              they willing to do in exchange for it?  Kathy Kleiman has
              mentored many folks here under the pilot program, I am
              hoping we can build a program based on that one but we
              need keen mentors and motivated mentees.  Folks don't
              appear to like the idea that travel is a perc (yes, we do
              work hard at meetings) but in my experience at work and
              volunteering, attending conferences is a benefit and
              incentive, particularly when it includes international
              travel and plenty of social events and opportunities to
              make professional contacts.</p>
            <p>Stephanie Perrin<br>
            </p>
            <p><br>
            </p>
            <p> <br>
            </p>
            <div>On 2020-07-15 5:58 a.m., dorothy g wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Thank
                  you Joy and Kathy for reminding us of the current
                  programmatic priorities.   I have no firm views on the
                  proposed merger, I am waiting to learn more.   I do
                  feel though that it may not be the right tool to
                  address the real issue. This in my humble opinion is 
                  how to encourage greater member participation and grow
                  our numbers. How do we get tens of thousands of
                  members to be active.  Speaking from a personal level
                  and drawing on my interactions with others over the
                  years, members do not participate because they feel
                  they do not understand the issues well enough.  What
                  are we really being asked to take a  decision on?  How
                  can I possibly join in on a discussion when I do not
                  really understand where my interests lie?</div>
                <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">So
                  the challenge is how do we communicate better on the
                  decision points.   Do we ask volunteer researchers to
                  set out the positions so people can argue out the case
                  with them? Do we issue briefing notes? Short videos?
                  Do we have policy debate groups? I am sure some of
                  these have been tried in the past and perhaps other
                  members have better ideas on how to do this.</div>
                <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Some
                  people have the advantage of interacting frequently
                  with experts in the field, many do not. If the group
                  is reduced to only those who deal with the issues as
                  part of their day job we will not be able to solve the
                  workload distribution issues mentioned in earlier
                  mails even if we merge.  I just looked at the ICANN
                  pages on the Review of the Rights Protection
                  mechanisms.  In my view they would not help someone to
                  get to know the issues.  By definition our groups are
                  made up of users. We must figure a way of encouraging
                  them to think like experts. It should be that my
                  position on the various aspects of rights protection
                  mechanisms is as clear as my positions on vegemite and
                  marmite.  How do we get there? A merger may or may not
                  be part of the solution. So let us address the real
                  issue.  I believe if we get this right we will grow
                  into a more vibrant community and we will also inspire
                  more generalised citizen engagement. </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 15, 2020
                  at 8:33 AM Joy Liddicoat <<a href="mailto:joy@liddicoat.nz" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">joy@liddicoat.nz</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
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                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div>
                    <p>Hi Dorothy, thanks for the question.</p>
                    <p>There is always plenty going on and I feel
                      somewhat guilty about identifying priorities that
                      I can't at this stage work on! However, in the
                      current work programme, my priorit picks would be:</p>
                    <p>* the review of the rights protection mechanisms
                      <br>
                    </p>
                    <p>* the EDPD on the temporary specification for
                      gLTD data</p>
                    <p>As for possible new areas - it seems to have been
                      a while since there as a proposal focused on
                      access to knowledge ....</p>
                    <p>Joy<br>
                    </p>
                    <div>On 12/07/2020 8:08 pm, dorothy g wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Dear Joy,  Please
                          share with me what you find to be the priority
                          issues right now.  I would like another
                          perspective as I sometimes speak on this
                          topic. </div>
                        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Navel gazing may help
                          get more people thinking about the group!</div>
                        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">best</div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul
                          12, 2020 at 5:06 AM Joy Liddicoat <<a href="mailto:joy@liddicoat.nz" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">joy@liddicoat.nz</a>>
                          wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                          rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                          <div>
                            <p>Hi Joly - good question, thanks.  To be
                              honest, I have no intention of responding
                              to the debate at this point - the idea
                              generates about as much interest as I
                              would have in sharpening a blunt pencil
                              and using it to poke holes in cheese. <br>
                            </p>
                            <p>No disrespect intended to those who
                              favour discussing it, but honestly, with
                              all the other issues in the DNS+ world
                              right now, I would have thought better to
                              engage in substantive policy work than on
                              this kind of internal restructuring.</p>
                            <p>I acknowledge that I say this as someone
                              who hasn't engaged in policy work for some
                              time (for various reasons) and also being
                              from New Zealand, where we currently have
                              the privilege of living in a Covid-free
                              community thanks to our strong political
                              leadership and collective community
                              action.  However, this does give me a
                              different perspective on ICANN, gTLDs,
                              ccTLDs and relative priorities.<br>
                            </p>
                            <p>Joy Liddicoat<br>
                            </p>
                            <div>On 12/07/2020 3:59 pm, Joly MacFie
                              wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I notice a
                                  deafeniing silence from the NCUC old
                                  school on this topic. Are we keeping
                                  our powder dry?</div>
                                <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
                                </div>
                                <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">joly</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                -- <br>
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>
                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                        <div>
                                          <div>--------------------------------------<br>
                                            Joly MacFie  +<span title="Call with Google
                                              Voice">2185659365</span> </div>
                                          <div>--------------------------------------</div>
                                          -</div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                              <fieldset></fieldset>
                              <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
                            </blockquote>
                            <pre cols="72">-- 
Joy Liddicoat
@internetrights</pre>
                          </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br clear="all">
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      -- <br>
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>stay well, kind regards</div>
                          Dorothy Gordon</div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <pre cols="72">-- 
Joy Liddicoat
@internetrights</pre>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br clear="all">
              <div><br>
              </div>
              -- <br>
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>stay well, kind regards</div>
                  Dorothy Gordon</div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <fieldset></fieldset>
              <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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