<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Hi,</span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I'd recommend including discussion of, broadly, human rights and the private sector, transparency reporting, what "due process" means in this context, the potential impact of state pressure and, as the overarching theme, what does any of this have to do with ICANN.</span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I guess there's no shortage of speakers/panelists at this point, but I'd be happy to speak as well, if we're not already full up. I wrote a book on this issue - how freedom of expression should be understood in a private sector context: <a href="http://responsible-tech.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Intermediaries-Print.pdf">http://responsible-tech.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Intermediaries-Print.pdf</a></span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Happy to help or discuss further.</span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Michael </span></div><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Aug 23, 2017, at 8:34 AM, Gustavo Paiva <<a href="mailto:gdp.direito@gmail.com">gdp.direito@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Greetings,<div><br></div><div>I am currently working on a Draft Agenda. If anyone is interested in contributing I can provide a link so we can work together. I am trying to display the main points expressed in this discussion — including, of course, the argument that ICANN might have nothing to do with it.</div><div><br></div><div>Gustavo.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 22 August 2017 at 21:25, Bruna Martins dos Santos <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bruna.mrtns@gmail.com" target="_blank">bruna.mrtns@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On the Brasil level: I'd love to help building a proposal (and translating it) for the Forum Brasileiro! <div><br></div><div>Regarding Abu Dhabi: I do get the intricacies pointed out by the ones who are opposing this discussion being held on the meeting but isn't there anything we could do such as discussing it in any sort of outreach or in a less formal environment? Its a tricky discussion but considering the non-commercial user point of view it's far too important for us not to at least try to have it! Even if the idea was to sit down and re-emphasize the idea that Icann has nothing to do with that. </div><div><br></div><div>Best, </div><div>Bruna <div><div class="h5"><br><br>Em terça-feira, 22 de agosto de 2017, Cláudio Lucena <<a href="mailto:claudiokilla@gmail.com" target="_blank">claudiokilla@gmail.com</a>> escreveu:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Sure, Martin, absolutely agree.</div><div><br></div><div>The idea was not to substitute, but rather to amplify the debate, since the period for proposals is open in the local Internet Forum space. Nothing can replace the wider discussion that we are considering for the ICANN space.</div><div><br></div><div>We'll be working in the National proposal meanwhile, and sharing with you the aspects which we believe might contribute to the wider perspective.</div><div><br></div><div>Cláudio</div><div><br></div><div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">-- <br></span><div><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="border-collapse:collapse;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"></span></p><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Cláudio S. de Lucena Neto<br></span></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Professor do Centro de Ciências Jurídicas</span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><i style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Professor of Law</i></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">twitter:claudiokilla</span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">skype: claudio_killa</span></p><div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Universidade Estadual da Paraíba - UEPB</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><i>Paraíba State University - UEPB</i><br>Centro de Ciências Jurídicas - Campus I</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><i style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Center for Legal Studies - Campus I</i></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Departamento de Direito Privado</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><i>Private Law Department</i><br><a href="http://www.uepb.rpp.br/" target="_blank">www.uepb.edu.br</a></span></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a>Rua Coronel Salvino de Figueiredo, S/N</a><br><a>Centro</a></span></font></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><a style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><font color="#000000">CEP 58.400-253</font></a></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a>Campina Grande - PB - Brasil</a><br>Fone/Fax: <a href="tel:+55%C2%A083%203310%209753" target="_blank">+55 83 3310 9753</a></span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br>On 23 Aug 2017, at 04:11, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <<a>mpsilvavalent@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>All,</div><div>I agree with Michale, Jeremy and others on the need to address this as a group, and I do not “fear” the consequences of talking for the sake of talking, I do agree with James or Milton to avoid any official communicate, but it does have policy relevance for ICANN and the GNSO. <br><br>From James “Sorry Martin but in no way does ICANN enforce registrars TOS on its customers with regards to right to not provide service for content matters.” This is not what I meant at all. I think we actually may see eye to eye on what role ICANN and Contracted parties may have, but I think that the debate is relevant in this forum and re-stateing neutrality of content in ICANN policy is a must when this sort of events raise confusion and uncertainty.<br><br></div><div>On the IGF Brazil, please do debate, is a relevant forum for a relevant topic and very graceful community, but I don’t see how that is going to replace Jeremy’s request on ICANN space or the global community that ICANN gathers. </div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Martín Silva</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:09 PM, Gustavo Paiva <<a>gdp.direito@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr">I appreciate your suggestion, Michael. I'll start working on a draft.<div><br></div><div>Gustavo Paiva.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 22 August 2017 at 18:15, Michael Oghia <span dir="ltr"><<a>mike.oghia@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">+1 Michael.<div><br></div><div>Might I suggest that those interested in speaking at the event as well as those who want to host it create a draft agenda along with some proposed aims and objectives?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Best,</font></div><div><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">-Michael<br></font></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"></div></div></div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Mike <span dir="ltr"><<a>mkaranicolas@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div><div>I feel very strongly that we shouldn't be self-censoring our topics for discussion based on the fact that the venue is Abu Dhabi. It's bad enough we are going to have members who cannot attend based on their activist backgrounds. If we approach this from the perspective of avoiding any discussion that might make waves, there's no point even showing up.</div><div><br></div><div>I agree that this could be the topic for a wonderful discussion at Brazilian IGF, but I don't see the two conversations as being mutually exclusive, especially as many (most?) of us won't be at that meeting.</div><div><br></div><div>I'll also add that I understand concerns raised earlier about normative statements but, from my perspective, this discussion would be less about establishing an official NCUC position and more about feeling the topic out. I wouldn't expect the discussion to end with any sort of "official" conclusion that Cloudflare was wrong (or right), but given that this is an issue with implications for ICANN going forward, it would be useful to come together and share some preliminary thoughts about future challenges. At least, that's how I see it. Let's have the conversation.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Michael</div><div><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><div><div><br>On Aug 22, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Viviane Vinagre <<a>vivianegvinagre@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><span><div>"<span style="font-size:12.8px">I understand
James's concern for scope, just like Bill I don't yet know what to think
either, but it seems that Ayden's line that DNS, as a technical
framework, "is being used to determine who can and cannot disseminate
knowledge and opinions" is absolutely enough for us to put this
discussion forward for the time being."<br><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">I also agree with what Claudio said, I think the best option for us is doing a workshop and discuss that matter in the Brazillian IGF. And as Gustavo I think we would have a </span>better civilized, productive debate, with both sides being represented in Brazil than in Abu Dhabi where the enviroment about freedom of expression isn't that good. <br><br><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-08-21 17:13 GMT-03:00 Jeremy Malcolm <span dir="ltr"><<a>jmalcolm@eff.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span>
On 20/8/17 12:37 pm, Stephanie Perrin wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I agree, let's not
escalate things ourselves. I think the CEO of Cloudfare has
expressed it quite well:
<a href="https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/17/cloudflare-ceo-says-removing-the-daily-stormer-is-slippery-slope.html" target="_blank">https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/1<wbr>7/cloudflare-ceo-says-removing<wbr>-the-daily-stormer-is-slippery<wbr>-slope.html</a>.<br>
I think we should have this discussion, am neutral as to the
appropriate setting. I bet Michael Nelson from Cloudfare will
be there, he would be good to talk to as a discussant of the
matter.<br>
</font></font></blockquote>
<br></span>
Also Namecheap, if you haven't seen this piece of theirs, especially
the addendum:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://blog.namecheap.com/inciting-violence-vs-freedom-speech/" target="_blank">https://blog.namecheap.com/inc<wbr>iting-violence-vs-freedom-spee<wbr>ch/</a><span><br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Global Policy Analyst
Electronic Frontier Foundation
<a href="https://eff.org/" target="_blank">https://eff.org</a>
<a>jmalcolm@eff.org</a>
Tel: <a href="tel:(415)%20436-9333" value="+14154369333" target="_blank">415.436.9333 ext 161</a>
:: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::
Public key: <a href="https://www.eff.org/files/2016/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt" target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/files/2016<wbr>/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt</a>
PGP fingerprint: 75D2 4C0D 35EA EA2F 8CA8 8F79 4911 EC4A EDDF 1122</pre>
</span></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
<a>Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin<wbr>/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br><span>Ncuc-discuss mailing list</span><br><span><a>Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin<wbr>/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
<a>Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin<wbr>/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
<a>Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin<wbr>/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br><a>Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin<wbr>/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br><span>Ncuc-discuss mailing list</span><br><span><a>Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin<wbr>/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><b><i>Bruna Martins dos Santos </i></b></div><div><br></div><div><div><a href="tel:+55%2061%2099252-6512" value="+5561992526512" target="_blank">+55 61 99252-6512</a></div><div>Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos<br></div><div>@boomartins<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>
</font></span><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-<wbr>bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-<wbr>discuss</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Ncuc-discuss mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss">https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>