<div dir="ltr">Our motivation is to keep internet humane and decent. Others' is to make as much money off it, as possible. While it might be a binary way of looking at things, it's a very clear line to me.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 24 November 2016 at 20:32, matthew shears <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mshears@cdt.org" target="_blank">mshears@cdt.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <p>That's pretty binary.  Humankind is far more complicated.  Profit
      is just an expression of power, which manifests itself in many
      different ways.   <br>
    </p>
    <p>We are all susceptible to being bought off - in many cases it may
      not have nothing to do with dollars and cents.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>I suspect that the motivations of those in the broader ICANN
      community are quite diverse, no matter their constituencies.  <br>
    </p><div><div class="h5">
    <br>
    <div class="m_8986269893339649711moz-cite-prefix">On 24/11/2016 18:26, Raoul Plommer
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">It's easy. Either you are inspired by profit or
        you're not. NCSG's motivations are based on decency and
        humanity.</div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On 24 November 2016 at 20:20, James
          Gannon <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
              <div>
                <div>That’s a very very serious accusation to make, care
                  to back it up?</div>
                <div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <span id="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
                <div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
                  <span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Raoul
                  Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>><br>
                  <span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday
                  24 November 2016 at 18:13<br>
                  <span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>James
                  Gannon <<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>><br>
                  <span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>William
                  Drake <<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>>,
                  NCUC-discuss <<a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a>>
                  <div>
                    <div class="m_8986269893339649711h5"><br>
                      <span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
                      [NCUC-DISCUSS] NomCom Review<br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div class="m_8986269893339649711h5">
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div dir="ltr">What it really boils down to, is
                          that only a few constituencies can't be simply
                          paid off.</div>
                        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">On 24 November 2016
                            at 20:01, James Gannon <span dir="ltr">
                              <<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>></span>
                            wrote:<br>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                              <div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>I think that the stakeholder
                                      balance across the GNSO and in
                                      NomCom is a little more complex
                                      than just business vs non
                                      business. I agree some reform is
                                      needed however.</div>
                                    <div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>-James</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <span id="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763m_1984478909721971443OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
                                  <div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
                                    <span style="font-weight:bold">From:
                                    </span>Ncuc-discuss <<a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss-bounces@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">ncuc-discuss-bounces@lists.nc<wbr>uc.org</a>>
                                    on behalf of Raoul Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                    <span style="font-weight:bold">Date:
                                    </span>Thursday 24 November 2016 at
                                    17:57<br>
                                    <span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>William
                                    Drake <<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>><br>
                                    <span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>NCUC-discuss
                                    <<a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a>><br>
                                    <span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:
                                    </span>Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] NomCom
                                    Review<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div class="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763h5">
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div dir="ltr">I think the
                                            businesses are taking all
                                            the damn seats.</div>
                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                            <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                              24 November 2016 at 17:39,
                                              William Drake <span dir="ltr">
                                                <<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>></span>
                                              wrote:<br>
                                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                <div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi
                                                  Raoul
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>There are new
                                                    interests coming in
                                                    with the new gTLDs,
                                                    and it’s not
                                                    impossible that at
                                                    some point there’d
                                                    be new
                                                    constituencies
                                                    seeking slots. Long
                                                    running debate with
                                                    regard to GNSO
                                                    generally. So when
                                                    the WG is up and
                                                    running they along
                                                    with everyone else
                                                    may need to think
                                                    about the future
                                                    evolution of the
                                                    community.</div>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>Cheers</div>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>Bill</div>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div class="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763m_1984478909721971443h5">
                                                          <div>On Nov
                                                          24, 2016, at
                                                          16:10, Raoul
                                                          Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>>
                                                          wrote:</div>
                                                          <br class="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763m_1984478909721971443m_4012361650429485257Apple-interchange-newline">
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div class="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763m_1984478909721971443h5">
                                                          <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                          24 November
                                                          2016 at 12:14,
                                                          William Drake
                                                          <span dir="ltr">
                                                          <<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div><span style="float:none;display:inline">Meanwhile
                                                          the three CSG
                                                          constituencies
                                                          get four reps
                                                          (two for the
                                                          BC!) and
                                                          contracted
                                                          also gets two
                                                          reps.  <b>How
                                                          this will
                                                          evolve
                                                          if/when we new
                                                          DNS industry
                                                          constituencies
                                                          due to the new
                                                          gTLD program
                                                          is hard to say</b>,
                                                          but the above
                                                          mentioned
                                                          2014 Board
                                                          Working Group
                                                          on the NomCom
                                                          most certainly
                                                          got it wrong
                                                          in suggesting
                                                          that NomCom
                                                          should
                                                          be restructured
                                                          as follows to
                                                          avoid “GNSO
                                                          over-representation”:</span></div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div> Could
                                                          you elaborate
                                                          on the bit I
                                                          bolded? Didn't
                                                          quite
                                                          understand the
                                                          possible
                                                          ramifications.</div>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><span style="float:none;display:inline"></span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span style="float:none;display:inline">I
                                                          think the
                                                          notion of one
                                                          rep per GNSO
                                                          stakeholder
                                                          group might be
                                                          salable to the
                                                          wider
                                                          community,
                                                          although of
                                                          course CSG
                                                          would fight it
                                                          tooth and nail
                                                          as they have
                                                          four reps to
                                                          one each for
                                                          the
                                                          registries,
                                                          registrars,
                                                          and NCUC.  But
                                                          the rest of
                                                          the Board’s
                                                          suggestions
                                                          were pretty
                                                          ill-considered. 
                                                          And one per SG
                                                          would not
                                                          offset the
                                                          fact that ALAC
                                                          has five.</span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <div>You mean
                                                          the CSG has
                                                          four reps, of
                                                          which <b>two
                                                          </b>belong to
                                                          the businesses
                                                          large and
                                                          small, one for
                                                          the ISPs and
                                                          one for the
                                                          IP. Registrars
                                                          and registries
                                                          are also
                                                          businesses so
                                                          basically
                                                          there is only
                                                          one seat for
                                                          non-commercial
                                                          interests,
                                                          whereas 6/7
                                                          GNSO seats are
                                                          motivated by
                                                          profit only.
                                                          This is the
                                                          most
                                                          outrageous
                                                          part in this
                                                          and I can not
                                                          comprehend,
                                                          how they
                                                          managed to
                                                          take out the
                                                          academic seat
                                                          in the first
                                                          place, but
                                                          yeah,
                                                          obviously I'm
                                                          still learning
                                                          about ICANN...</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Here is
                                                          the list of
                                                          seats in the
                                                          NomCom and how
                                                          they are
                                                          currently
                                                          spread:</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>The
                                                          nominating
                                                          committee has
                                                          17 seats <a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/nomcom2016-members-2016-02-18-en" target="_blank">
                                                          at the moment</a>,
                                                          altogether:</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>7 from
                                                          the GNSO:</div>
                                                          <div>4x CSG (1
                                                          for small, one
                                                          for big
                                                          businesses,
                                                          one for IP and
                                                          one for the
                                                          ISPs)</div>
                                                          <div>1x
                                                          NCSG/NCUC</div>
                                                          <div>1x
                                                          Registrars</div>
                                                          <div>1x
                                                          Registries</div>
                                                          <div>***************</div>
                                                          <div>1x ASO</div>
                                                          <div>1x ccNSO</div>
                                                          <div>1x SSAC</div>
                                                          <div>1x RSSAC</div>
                                                          <div>***************</div>
                                                          <div>5x ALAC
                                                          (1 for each
                                                          region)</div>
                                                          <div>1x IAB
                                                          for IETF</div>
                                                          <div>***************</div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <div><span style="float:none;display:inline"></span></div>
                                                          <div><span style="float:none;display:inline">Other
                                                          routes could
                                                          be to focus at
                                                          the
                                                          constituency
                                                          rather than SG
                                                          level, and try
                                                          to get one for
                                                          NPOC, or even
                                                          for academics
                                                          (there’s a
                                                          history
                                                          there). 
                                                          That’d still
                                                          leave us with
                                                          less than CSG
                                                          though.</span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Yes, I
                                                          think that is
                                                          the least we
                                                          could be happy
                                                          with, is
                                                          getting a seat
                                                          for the NPOC,
                                                          so I would set
                                                          that as a
                                                          minimum. The
                                                          best outcome
                                                          in my view
                                                          would be
                                                          taking no less
                                                          than three
                                                          seats off the
                                                          CSG if we were
                                                          really to go
                                                          down the route
                                                          of having one
                                                          seat per SG. I
                                                          don't think
                                                          that would be
                                                          too hard to
                                                          sell for the
                                                          other SGs
                                                          either.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>In any
                                                          event, we’d
                                                          need to think
                                                          through
                                                          bargaining
                                                          positions—opening
                                                          bids, what
                                                          we’d settle
                                                          for after
                                                          negotiation,
                                                          etc., taking
                                                          into account
                                                          the
                                                          preferences of
                                                          the rest of
                                                          the community
                                                          represented on
                                                          NomCom.</div>
                                                          <div><span style="float:none;display:inline"><br>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Absolutely.
                                                          We need to
                                                          engage with
                                                          the relevant
                                                          people within
                                                          the SGs as
                                                          well as ALAC,
                                                          before we make
                                                          any decisions
                                                          on strategy.
                                                          For example,
                                                          Rubens
                                                          suggested
                                                          dialuting some
                                                          of the votes,
                                                          for example,
                                                          ALAC could
                                                          have 0.8 or
                                                          0.6 votes per
                                                          geographical
                                                          region. There
                                                          are many
                                                          moving parts
                                                          and first we
                                                          need to map
                                                          out all
                                                          different,
                                                          favourable
                                                          outcomes and
                                                          evaluate,
                                                          which of them
                                                          have most
                                                          chances in
                                                          succeeding and
                                                          are they worth
                                                          the fight.
                                                          Some of these
                                                          options
                                                          definitely
                                                          are.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>-Raoul</div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <span>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                                                          Ncuc-discuss
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
                                                          <a href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <span><br>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
                                                          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
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                                                          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
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                                                          William J.
                                                          Drake<br>
                                                          International
                                                          Fellow
                                                          & Lecturer<br>
                                                            Media Change
& Innovation Division, IPMZ<br>
                                                            University
                                                          of
                                                          Zurich, Switzerland<br>
                                                          <a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a> (direct),<wbr> <a href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com" target="_blank">wjdrake@gmail.com</a> (lists),<br>
                                                            <a href="http://www.williamdrake.org" target="_blank">www.williamdrake.org</a><br>
******************************<wbr>******************</div>
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      <pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
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</pre>
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    <br>
    </div></div><pre class="m_8986269893339649711moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
------------
Matthew Shears
Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
<a href="tel:%2B%2044%20771%202472987" value="+447712472987" target="_blank">+ 44 771 2472987</a></pre>
  
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