<div dir="ltr">Our motivation is to keep internet humane and decent. Others' is to make as much money off it, as possible. While it might be a binary way of looking at things, it's a very clear line to me.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 24 November 2016 at 20:32, matthew shears <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mshears@cdt.org" target="_blank">mshears@cdt.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>That's pretty binary. Humankind is far more complicated. Profit
is just an expression of power, which manifests itself in many
different ways. <br>
</p>
<p>We are all susceptible to being bought off - in many cases it may
not have nothing to do with dollars and cents. <br>
</p>
<p>I suspect that the motivations of those in the broader ICANN
community are quite diverse, no matter their constituencies. <br>
</p><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<div class="m_8986269893339649711moz-cite-prefix">On 24/11/2016 18:26, Raoul Plommer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">It's easy. Either you are inspired by profit or
you're not. NCSG's motivations are based on decency and
humanity.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 24 November 2016 at 20:20, James
Gannon <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>
<div>That’s a very very serious accusation to make, care
to back it up?</div>
<div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Raoul
Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday
24 November 2016 at 18:13<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>James
Gannon <<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>William
Drake <<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>>,
NCUC-discuss <<a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a>>
<div>
<div class="m_8986269893339649711h5"><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
[NCUC-DISCUSS] NomCom Review<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_8986269893339649711h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">What it really boils down to, is
that only a few constituencies can't be simply
paid off.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 24 November 2016
at 20:01, James Gannon <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>
<div>
<div>I think that the stakeholder
balance across the GNSO and in
NomCom is a little more complex
than just business vs non
business. I agree some reform is
needed however.</div>
<div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-James</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763m_1984478909721971443OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From:
</span>Ncuc-discuss <<a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss-bounces@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">ncuc-discuss-bounces@lists.nc<wbr>uc.org</a>>
on behalf of Raoul Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date:
</span>Thursday 24 November 2016 at
17:57<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>William
Drake <<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>NCUC-discuss
<<a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:
</span>Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] NomCom
Review<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">I think the
businesses are taking all
the damn seats.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
24 November 2016 at 17:39,
William Drake <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi
Raoul
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are new
interests coming in
with the new gTLDs,
and it’s not
impossible that at
some point there’d
be new
constituencies
seeking slots. Long
running debate with
regard to GNSO
generally. So when
the WG is up and
running they along
with everyone else
may need to think
about the future
evolution of the
community.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bill</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763m_1984478909721971443h5">
<div>On Nov
24, 2016, at
16:10, Raoul
Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763m_1984478909721971443m_4012361650429485257Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_8986269893339649711m_3096792763635450763m_1984478909721971443h5">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
24 November
2016 at 12:14,
William Drake
<span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span style="float:none;display:inline">Meanwhile
the three CSG
constituencies
get four reps
(two for the
BC!) and
contracted
also gets two
reps. <b>How
this will
evolve
if/when we new
DNS industry
constituencies
due to the new
gTLD program
is hard to say</b>,
but the above
mentioned
2014 Board
Working Group
on the NomCom
most certainly
got it wrong
in suggesting
that NomCom
should
be restructured
as follows to
avoid “GNSO
over-representation”:</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> Could
you elaborate
on the bit I
bolded? Didn't
quite
understand the
possible
ramifications.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div><span style="float:none;display:inline"></span></div>
</div>
<div><span style="float:none;display:inline">I
think the
notion of one
rep per GNSO
stakeholder
group might be
salable to the
wider
community,
although of
course CSG
would fight it
tooth and nail
as they have
four reps to
one each for
the
registries,
registrars,
and NCUC. But
the rest of
the Board’s
suggestions
were pretty
ill-considered.
And one per SG
would not
offset the
fact that ALAC
has five.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>You mean
the CSG has
four reps, of
which <b>two
</b>belong to
the businesses
large and
small, one for
the ISPs and
one for the
IP. Registrars
and registries
are also
businesses so
basically
there is only
one seat for
non-commercial
interests,
whereas 6/7
GNSO seats are
motivated by
profit only.
This is the
most
outrageous
part in this
and I can not
comprehend,
how they
managed to
take out the
academic seat
in the first
place, but
yeah,
obviously I'm
still learning
about ICANN...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here is
the list of
seats in the
NomCom and how
they are
currently
spread:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>The
nominating
committee has
17 seats <a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/nomcom2016-members-2016-02-18-en" target="_blank">
at the moment</a>,
altogether:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>7 from
the GNSO:</div>
<div>4x CSG (1
for small, one
for big
businesses,
one for IP and
one for the
ISPs)</div>
<div>1x
NCSG/NCUC</div>
<div>1x
Registrars</div>
<div>1x
Registries</div>
<div>***************</div>
<div>1x ASO</div>
<div>1x ccNSO</div>
<div>1x SSAC</div>
<div>1x RSSAC</div>
<div>***************</div>
<div>5x ALAC
(1 for each
region)</div>
<div>1x IAB
for IETF</div>
<div>***************</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><span style="float:none;display:inline"></span></div>
<div><span style="float:none;display:inline">Other
routes could
be to focus at
the
constituency
rather than SG
level, and try
to get one for
NPOC, or even
for academics
(there’s a
history
there).
That’d still
leave us with
less than CSG
though.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, I
think that is
the least we
could be happy
with, is
getting a seat
for the NPOC,
so I would set
that as a
minimum. The
best outcome
in my view
would be
taking no less
than three
seats off the
CSG if we were
really to go
down the route
of having one
seat per SG. I
don't think
that would be
too hard to
sell for the
other SGs
either.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In any
event, we’d
need to think
through
bargaining
positions—opening
bids, what
we’d settle
for after
negotiation,
etc., taking
into account
the
preferences of
the rest of
the community
represented on
NomCom.</div>
<div><span style="float:none;display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Absolutely.
We need to
engage with
the relevant
people within
the SGs as
well as ALAC,
before we make
any decisions
on strategy.
For example,
Rubens
suggested
dialuting some
of the votes,
for example,
ALAC could
have 0.8 or
0.6 votes per
geographical
region. There
are many
moving parts
and first we
need to map
out all
different,
favourable
outcomes and
evaluate,
which of them
have most
chances in
succeeding and
are they worth
the fight.
Some of these
options
definitely
are.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Raoul</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">******************************<wbr>******************<br>
William J.
Drake<br>
International
Fellow
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& Innovation Division, IPMZ<br>
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</div>
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</div>
<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div><pre class="m_8986269893339649711moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------
Matthew Shears
Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
<a href="tel:%2B%2044%20771%202472987" value="+447712472987" target="_blank">+ 44 771 2472987</a></pre>
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