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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Some of us still
cannot get the adobe changeover to work. However, once it is
running properly, I agree that some work could effectively be
done in a longer format online meeting. The thing about the
intercessional though, was one of the goals was to foster
better understanding between our SGs, which is hard to do
remotely. It does help to sit down and talk with our partners
in the other community.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">cheers STephanie</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">PS I agree that this
is a useful discussion. May I remind all that some of our
partners are talking about structural reorg of the GNSO. Requires
close scrutiny and vigilance.</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-10-22 06:04, Raoul Plommer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADirp9Tp5jwgtcCVBkOi_UpAA8+zpcZr1M7dQTAfJiuJSEogRw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Maybe we could have a relaxing outreach event for a day,
for all between the dates of ICANN59 and NCPH session, with
all the money that we save from air travel. That way, people
could be more willing to endure another couple of days and
have a good reason to take a day off in good company. The time
we'd be putting into shuttling back and forth to distant
countries, we could be kicking it back in a safari or
something. Just a thought.<br>
<br>
</div>
-Raoul<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 22 October 2016 at 12:51, William
Drake <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Not to get too deep into this but two comments. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Reykjavik: I keynoted at the Icelandic IGF in
February 2011, which was organized by the government. I
asked why they didn’t do a multistakeholder planning
process and the answer was we really don’t have an
organized civil society IG scene here. I was initially
skeptical but over the course of the event I did manage
to meet a few CS people, e.g. Pirates and grad students,
and they basically said the same. Maybe things have
changed, but if outreach is a guiding concern this it
might be worth looking into. I might add that re:
weather the snow was a meter deep, it was well below
freezing, and the wind was fierce, but maybe that was
unusual. Getting in and out was difficult as weather
meant flight problems and the immigration people almost
made me miss a plane with an hour interrogation about a
small folded edge on one of my passport pages, wanted me
to stay the night and go to the embassy to verify my ID,
fun argument. Maybe that was unusual too.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Johannesburg: From an outreach standpoint, there’s a
substantial civil society scene, which we connected to a
bit by organizing a session and hosting the reception at
APC's first African IG summer school before the Durban
ICANN meeting. APC could help make something
noteworthy happen here. As Rafik also notes, if
attached to the meeting, we could expand the
intersessional so that members who not on Council or the
NCUC/SG ECs can participate. We added some slots for
regular members at the DC meeting and CSG was keen to
more than we agreed, so it could be salable. And we
could ask staff to cover some additional hotel nights
for people to attend, since they’d be saving a very
large pile of money on air fares.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In any event the location has to be negotiated with
staff and CSG, but in terms of our opening position I
like what Rafik’s advocating—more inclusive and more
bang for the buck.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bill</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Oct 22, 2016, at 05:08, Rafik Dammak
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com"
target="_blank">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="m_7916286797275511047Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<p dir="ltr">Hi Ed.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Thanks for your interest and your
detailled message.</p>
<p dir="ltr">As matter of fact, you are
mentioning a report of the kickoff confcall
to start the planning for intersessional
meeting, held this Friday. The report was
shared in NCUC EC list but there was no
discussion yet as you know. Members can
check that email in the NCUC EC list so they
can make their opinion <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-ec/2016-October/003143.html"
target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/<wbr>pipermail/ncuc-ec/2016-<wbr>October/003143.html</a>
</p>
<p dir="ltr">I couldn't attend the call so I
was chairing the CCWG diversity subgroup
call as co-rapporteur in the same time . As
you know diversity as topic has a strong
interest among NCUC membership.</p>
<p dir="ltr">While I couldn't attend, I
suggested : to not hold the meeting in an US
city again and thinking about having it as
pre-event for icann meeting B instead for
some reasons. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Yes like many I don't have the
luxury to be away for long time from work
and family and I usually take that on my
limited holidays. The meeting B in
johanesburg next year is shorter by design
and also focused on policy. I think CCWG
meeting will be held in sunday as happened
in Helsinki meeting and we can avoid any
clash.<br>
It is more easier for people to add 2 days
to 5 days meeting than taking 5 or 6
separate days off (at least depending on the
itinerary) to attend a standalone meeting
such the intersessional. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Having it in Johanesburg also
means a possible outreach and also having
the opportunity to members to attend the
meeting and not just the leadership. <br>
I have no specific position about Iceland
why I know that we have to consider issues
such visa and itineraries for those from
LAC, Africa and APAC. <br>
At least Hyderabad meeting made all of us
equals with regard to visa hurdles and
difficulties, something some of us have to
handle for every ICANN meeting. </p>
<p dir="ltr">It is too early to dismiss any
option or push for a specific one and we
will have to see all pros and cons according
to objective criteria. When we get more
information and suggestions, I think we can
make a decision with acceptable trade-off.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Hope that helps.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Best,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Rafik <br>
</p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 22, 2016
11:12 AM, "Edward Morris" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:egmorris1@toast.net"
target="_blank">egmorris1@toast.net</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span
style="font-family:'Lucida Sans
Unicode','Lucida
Grande',Sans-Serif;font-size:14px">
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Hi everybody,</span></span></div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">A bit of
history: since the NCPH
intercessional meeting was
started four years ago every
meeting has been held in the
United States. The CSG
contingent is largely US
based. We are far more
diverse. That’s why I support
any and all efforts to have
the next such meeting hosted
outside the boundaries of the
USA.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">I
understand a bit why the
meeting is unlikely to happen
in Asia or South America or
Africa. I would support
holding a meeting in any of
those regions. Unfortunately
the budget for the
intercessional meeting is not
large and because of the CSG’s
largely American composition
bringing attendees to most, if
not all, of those regions is
not within the budget. Zika is
also an issue for some,
whether a rational concern or
not.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">I should
note that rotating the meeting
between ICANN’s three hub
cities – Los Angeles,
Singapore and Istanbul – makes
a lot of sense to me but then
again I also supported putting
ICANN Meetings themselves on a
similar rotation. Apparently
doing the rotation for the
intercessional is also a no
go.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">I was
pleasantly surprised when I
learned that at long last
Reykjavik appears to be
getting serious consideration
for a small group ICANN
meeting. I had argued for CCWG
F2F meetings to be held there
but without success.
Reykjavik just makes sense.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Thus, I was
sad to see on the NCUC EC page
that this wonderful city was
disparaged as “some city in
Iceland (please forgive me I
will never ever be able to
spell that city’s name).” I
was happy to learn that some
in the noncommercial community
do support Reykjavik. Just
apparently not within the NCUC
EC leadership. Again, sad.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">One of the
NCUC suggestions was that the
intercessional meeting be
attached to a normal Meeting,
at the beginning or end. I
strongly oppose that idea for
the following reasons:</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">1. ICANN
meetings are already too long.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">For those
who are single, are students,
academics, unemployed or
unattached it might be easy to
pop off for 10 days to two
weeks a few times a year. For
the rest of of us it is not. I
would find it much easier to
get away for a three day and a
five day meeting (two
meetings) than I would for a
single eight day meeting. I
suspect I am not alone with
this preference.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">2. The
front end of meetings are
already used by other groups.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">The CCWG
will be meeting prior to the
next three Meetings. Many NCUC
members volunteer on the CCWG.
Do we proceed to have an
intercessional without these
volunteers? Or do we extend
the meeting even longer?</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">3. People
are tired after an ICANN
Meeting.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Do we want
to meet for a few days at the
end of an ICANN Meeting? After
a week of nonstop work I’m not
sure it would be productive to
add another few days of work
to the schedule. I doubt many
would stick around to
participate. Those who do may
have the battles of the
previous week on their mind. I
know I would. I’m not sure I
would be up to being overly
friendly to CSG members I’d
just battled for several days.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">4. The
whole idea of the
intercessional meeting was to
bring the NCPH together <em>away
</em>from the ICANN Meeting,
where things could be a bit
more relaxed. </span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">This was a
poor idea and I’m sorry to see
the NCUC proposing it.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">I was happy
to see the NCUC suggest
Singapore as a possible
meeting site (see above). I’m
sorry the budget seems not to
allow for it.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">I
understand from posts by our
representatives to the
planning meeting that the
cities that may have received
traction are Washington,
Boston and Reykjavik. Two
years ago the intercession was
in DC. Do we need to go back
to the U.S. capital every two
years? Remember that thing
called the transition? Or do
we go to Boston: my
birthplace, but only a whole 7
hours drive away from
Washington in the same
country? One country, one
internet?</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Why
Reykjavik, or as it was called
in a post on the NCUC EC
message board, “some city in
Iceland”? Because it just
makes sense.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">1. Ease of
travel</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">The large
of majority of intercessional
attendees come from either
Europe or the east coast of
the United States. Here are
some nonstop travel times to
Reykjavik:</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Berlin: 3
hours 45 minutes</span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Boston: 5
hours 5 minutes</span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">London: 3
hours 10 minutes</span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">New York: 5
hours 25 minutes</span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Paris: 3
hours 30 minutes</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Shared
pain. Yes, Reykjavik is in
Europe but it is fairly close
to North America. Of great
importance when travelling in
winter there are nonstop
flights to Reykjavik from a
surprising number of North
American cities, east and west
coasts, and European cities,
north and south (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keflav%C3%ADk_International_Airport"
target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki<wbr>/Keflav%C3%ADk_International_<wbr>Airport</a>
). I had weather related
connection problems while
transiting to two of the three
intercessions I was supposed
to attend. Nonstop flights
lessen that possibility.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Those
coming from outside these two
regions will need to change
planes to get to Iceland, the
same as many have to do no
matter where we may hold the
meeting.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">2. Cost</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">The US
Department of State per diem
rate for Reykjavik is $318 a
day (includes all expenses,
including accommodation.
Compare that to Paris ($497)
or London ($468).</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">3.
Infrastructure</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Iceland is
a modern Nordic country.
Things work and the meeting
infrastructure is fantastic: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.meetinreykjavik.is/planyourevent"
target="_blank">http://www.meetinreykjavik.is/<wbr>planyourevent</a>
.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">4. Weather</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">It’s not
the tropics, but in February
Reykjavik’s average high
temperature of 39 degrees F is
actually 2 degrees higher than
Boston – an apparent alternate
choice.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">5.
Attractiveness</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">We’re there
to work and Iceland has
excellent facilities for that.
For those who also like fine
dining Icelandic seafood and
lamb are world famous.
Pollution, traffic congestion:
non existent. Sightseeing,
unique and tremendous.
Nightlife: voted many times
being amongst the best on
earth.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">The big
thing though is work. This is
a two day meeting. Reykjavik
offers the potential to bring
the greatest number of
attendees to a central
location with the least amount
of travel wear and tear. Is it
perfect for anyone? No. Is it
good for many? Yes.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">It
certainly is worthy of
consideration. And as a non US
resident I would have serious
reservations travelling once
again to the USA for the
intercessional meeting. Is it
too much to ask that it be
held outside of the USA once
every four or five years? I
will also note that the NCUC
has more members based in
Europe than in any other
region (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ncuc.org/about/members/"
target="_blank">http://www.ncuc.org/about/mem<wbr>bers/</a>
). How about making the CSG
folks have to travel to the
region we have the most
members for once?</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Having said
all of this I would also opine
that I don’t really see the
value in even having the
intercessional meeting. It
seems to largely exist to
allow the CSG members to lobby
staff. No wonder they want to
keep having it in the country
with the most ICANN staff.
Perhaps instead of debating
where we should be having the
meeting we should be debating
whether to have it at all.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">If we are
going to have it, though, and
there are some good reasons to
do so, let’s really consider
the options, without
disparaging one of the most
remarkable cities and
societies in the world.
Reykjavik, the capital of the
country with the oldest
Parliament in the world (the
Althing, founded 930), is not
all that hard to spell. It’s
also very easy to get to, has
tremendous facilities,
reasonable costs, and a
wonderful democratic
tradition. All reasons why the
intercessional should be held
there. At least once.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Reykjavik:
it just makes sense.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Ed</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">- It makes
sense particularly for the
NCUC. I note that the NCUC
currently has no members in
Iceland. As a technologically
advanced country with high
education levels and high
levels of English competence,
a country that has led the
world in privacy and online
free speech initiatives, this
is surprising. This should be
prime NCUC membership
territory. If we take the
intercessional to Reykjavik,
do some outreach, it just very
well may become one of our
more prolific countries in
terms of membership.
Demographically and
ideologically it should be.
Given Iceland’s unequaled
democratic tradition it’s also
a place we may be able to
learn from ourselves as we
transition ICANN into it’s
exciting new era.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">More
information:</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans
unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Let’s Meet
In The Middle: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://vimeo.com/77711285"
target="_blank">https://vimeo.com/77711285</a></span></span></div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</span>
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style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
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style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
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style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">******************************<wbr>******************<br>
William J. Drake<br>
International Fellow & Lecturer<br>
Media Change & Innovation
Division, IPMZ<br>
University of Zurich, Switzerland<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch"
target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a> (direct),<wbr> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com"
target="_blank">wjdrake@gmail.com</a> (lists),<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.williamdrake.org"
target="_blank">www.williamdrake.org</a><br>
******************************<wbr>******************</div>
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______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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