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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Thanks for your
clarification Rafik, and let me be clear....to a Canadian -30
in February, anywhere is bound to be a good choice. I also
would agree that adding to one of the short meetings makes sense,
because 18 hours of travel one way is a lot for a short
meeting. Perhaps we actually should try to figure out which
destinations are the easiest to get to for most of us, in a
systematic way, including visa obstacles. I wonder if ICANN Travel
would have such a spreadsheet?</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Stephanie</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-10-21 23:08, Rafik Dammak
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAH5sThmOLjK5C5=JveSsN0Teuv7m8qFPRuL2MJ64Qn-bwZLfFA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<p dir="ltr">Hi Ed.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Thanks for your interest and your detailled message.</p>
<p dir="ltr">As matter of fact, you are mentioning a report of the
kickoff confcall to start the planning for intersessional
meeting, held this Friday. The report was shared in NCUC EC list
but there was no discussion yet as you know. Members can check
that email in the NCUC EC list so they can make their opinion <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-ec/2016-October/003143.html">http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-ec/2016-October/003143.html</a>
</p>
<p dir="ltr">I couldn't attend the call so I was chairing the
CCWG diversity subgroup call as co-rapporteur in the same time .
As you know diversity as topic has a strong interest among NCUC
membership.</p>
<p dir="ltr">While I couldn't attend, I suggested : to not hold
the meeting in an US city again and thinking about having it as
pre-event for icann meeting B instead for some reasons. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Yes like many I don't have the luxury to be away for
long time from work and family and I usually take that on my
limited holidays. The meeting B in johanesburg next year is
shorter by design and also focused on policy. I think CCWG
meeting will be held in sunday as happened in Helsinki meeting
and we can avoid any clash.<br>
It is more easier for people to add 2 days to 5 days meeting
than taking 5 or 6 separate days off (at least depending on the
itinerary) to attend a standalone meeting such the
intersessional. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Having it in Johanesburg also means a possible
outreach and also having the opportunity to members to attend
the meeting and not just the leadership. <br>
I have no specific position about Iceland why I know that we
have to consider issues such visa and itineraries for those
from LAC, Africa and APAC. <br>
At least Hyderabad meeting made all of us equals with regard to
visa hurdles and difficulties, something some of us have to
handle for every ICANN meeting. </p>
<p dir="ltr">It is too early to dismiss any option or push for a
specific one and we will have to see all pros and cons according
to objective criteria. When we get more information and
suggestions, I think we can make a decision with acceptable
trade-off.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Hope that helps.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Best,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Rafik <br>
</p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 22, 2016 11:12 AM, "Edward
Morris" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:egmorris1@toast.net">egmorris1@toast.net</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span
style="font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode','Lucida
Grande',Sans-Serif;font-size:14px">
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Hi everybody,</span></span></div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">A bit of history: since the
NCPH intercessional meeting was started four years
ago every meeting has been held in the United
States. The CSG contingent is largely US based. We
are far more diverse. That’s why I support any and
all efforts to have the next such meeting hosted
outside the boundaries of the USA.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">I understand a bit why the
meeting is unlikely to happen in Asia or South
America or Africa. I would support holding a
meeting in any of those regions. Unfortunately the
budget for the intercessional meeting is not large
and because of the CSG’s largely American
composition bringing attendees to most, if not
all, of those regions is not within the budget.
Zika is also an issue for some, whether a rational
concern or not.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">I should note that rotating the
meeting between ICANN’s three hub cities – Los
Angeles, Singapore and Istanbul – makes a lot of
sense to me but then again I also supported
putting ICANN Meetings themselves on a similar
rotation. Apparently doing the rotation for the
intercessional is also a no go.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">I was pleasantly surprised when
I learned that at long last Reykjavik appears to
be getting serious consideration for a small group
ICANN meeting. I had argued for CCWG F2F meetings
to be held there but without success. Reykjavik
just makes sense.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Thus, I was sad to see on the
NCUC EC page that this wonderful city was
disparaged as “some city in Iceland (please
forgive me I will never ever be able to spell that
city’s name).” I was happy to learn that some in
the noncommercial community do support Reykjavik.
Just apparently not within the NCUC EC leadership.
Again, sad.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">One of the NCUC suggestions was
that the intercessional meeting be attached to a
normal Meeting, at the beginning or end. I
strongly oppose that idea for the following
reasons:</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">1. ICANN meetings are already
too long.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">For those who are single, are
students, academics, unemployed or unattached it
might be easy to pop off for 10 days to two weeks
a few times a year. For the rest of of us it is
not. I would find it much easier to get away for a
three day and a five day meeting (two meetings)
than I would for a single eight day meeting. I
suspect I am not alone with this preference.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">2. The front end of meetings
are already used by other groups.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">The CCWG will be meeting prior
to the next three Meetings. Many NCUC members
volunteer on the CCWG. Do we proceed to have an
intercessional without these volunteers? Or do we
extend the meeting even longer?</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">3. People are tired after an
ICANN Meeting.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Do we want to meet for a few
days at the end of an ICANN Meeting? After a week
of nonstop work I’m not sure it would be
productive to add another few days of work to the
schedule. I doubt many would stick around to
participate. Those who do may have the battles of
the previous week on their mind. I know I would.
I’m not sure I would be up to being overly
friendly to CSG members I’d just battled for
several days.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">4. The whole idea of the
intercessional meeting was to bring the NCPH
together <em>away </em>from the ICANN Meeting,
where things could be a bit more relaxed. </span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">This was a poor idea and I’m
sorry to see the NCUC proposing it.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">I was happy to see the NCUC
suggest Singapore as a possible meeting site (see
above). I’m sorry the budget seems not to allow
for it.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">I understand from posts by our
representatives to the planning meeting that the
cities that may have received traction are
Washington, Boston and Reykjavik. Two years ago
the intercession was in DC. Do we need to go back
to the U.S. capital every two years? Remember that
thing called the transition? Or do we go to
Boston: my birthplace, but only a whole 7 hours
drive away from Washington in the same country?
One country, one internet?</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Why Reykjavik, or as it was
called in a post on the NCUC EC message board,
“some city in Iceland”? Because it just makes
sense.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">1. Ease of travel</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">The large of majority of
intercessional attendees come from either Europe
or the east coast of the United States. Here are
some nonstop travel times to Reykjavik:</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Berlin: 3 hours 45 minutes</span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Boston: 5 hours 5 minutes</span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">London: 3 hours 10 minutes</span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">New York: 5 hours 25 minutes</span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Paris: 3 hours 30 minutes</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Shared pain. Yes, Reykjavik is
in Europe but it is fairly close to North America.
Of great importance when travelling in winter
there are nonstop flights to Reykjavik from a
surprising number of North American cities, east
and west coasts, and European cities, north and
south (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keflav%C3%ADk_International_Airport"
target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/<wbr>wiki/Keflav%C3%ADk_<wbr>International_Airport</a>
). I had weather related connection problems while
transiting to two of the three intercessions I was
supposed to attend. Nonstop flights lessen that
possibility.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Those coming from outside these
two regions will need to change planes to get to
Iceland, the same as many have to do no matter
where we may hold the meeting.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">2. Cost</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">The US Department of State per
diem rate for Reykjavik is $318 a day (includes
all expenses, including accommodation. Compare
that to Paris ($497) or London ($468).</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">3. Infrastructure</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Iceland is a modern Nordic
country. Things work and the meeting
infrastructure is fantastic: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.meetinreykjavik.is/planyourevent"
target="_blank">http://www.meetinreykjavik.is/<wbr>planyourevent</a>
.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">4. Weather</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">It’s not the tropics, but in
February Reykjavik’s average high temperature of
39 degrees F is actually 2 degrees higher than
Boston – an apparent alternate choice.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">5. Attractiveness</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">We’re there to work and Iceland
has excellent facilities for that. For those who
also like fine dining Icelandic seafood and lamb
are world famous. Pollution, traffic congestion:
non existent. Sightseeing, unique and tremendous.
Nightlife: voted many times being amongst the best
on earth.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">The big thing though is work.
This is a two day meeting. Reykjavik offers the
potential to bring the greatest number of
attendees to a central location with the least
amount of travel wear and tear. Is it perfect for
anyone? No. Is it good for many? Yes.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">It certainly is worthy of
consideration. And as a non US resident I
would have serious reservations travelling once
again to the USA for the intercessional meeting.
Is it too much to ask that it be held outside of
the USA once every four or five years? I will also
note that the NCUC has more members based in
Europe than in any other region (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ncuc.org/about/members/"
target="_blank">http://www.ncuc.org/about/<wbr>members/</a>
). How about making the CSG folks have to travel
to the region we have the most members for once?</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Having said all of this I would
also opine that I don’t really see the value in
even having the intercessional meeting. It seems
to largely exist to allow the CSG members to lobby
staff. No wonder they want to keep having it in
the country with the most ICANN staff. Perhaps
instead of debating where we should be having the
meeting we should be debating whether to have it
at all.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">If we are going to have it,
though, and there are some good reasons to do so,
let’s really consider the options, without
disparaging one of the most remarkable cities and
societies in the world. Reykjavik, the capital of
the country with the oldest Parliament in the
world (the Althing, founded 930), is not all that
hard to spell. It’s also very easy to get to, has
tremendous facilities, reasonable costs, and a
wonderful democratic tradition. All reasons why
the intercessional should be held there. At least
once.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Reykjavik: it just makes sense.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Ed</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">- It makes sense particularly
for the NCUC. I note that the NCUC currently has
no members in Iceland. As a technologically
advanced country with high education levels and
high levels of English competence, a country that
has led the world in privacy and online free
speech initiatives, this is surprising. This
should be prime NCUC membership territory. If we
take the intercessional to Reykjavik, do some
outreach, it just very well may become one of our
more prolific countries in terms of membership.
Demographically and ideologically it should be.
Given Iceland’s unequaled democratic tradition
it’s also a place we may be able to learn from
ourselves as we transition ICANN into it’s
exciting new era.</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">More information:</span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:14px"><span
style="font-family:lucida sans unicode,lucida
grande,sans-serif">Let’s Meet In The Middle: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://vimeo.com/77711285"
target="_blank">https://vimeo.com/77711285</a></span></span></div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</span>
<br>
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