<div dir="ltr">+1 Matthew, good point.<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">-Michael<br></font></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 9:58 AM, matthew shears <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mshears@cdt.org" target="_blank">mshears@cdt.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Rather than focussing on "kicking out" we should be focussing on ways of "bringing in" and " encouraging engagement".<br>
<br>
For example, we should find ways of enabling all members no matter their "status" to contribute through highlighting their work or other activities, and looking at ways that the work and activities of passive/inactive members can enrich the work of NCUC as a whole.<br>
<br>
Matthew<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 09/09/2016 09:51, Dan Krimm wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
There are other ways to balance the hurdle for charter amendments --<br>
abjectly kicking out passive members is not the only option. The 10%<br>
could be applied to *active* members, however that is defined (one idea:<br>
has voted in an election in the last N elections, not sure what number N<br>
should be -- but what was the criterion going to be for "passive" members,<br>
anyway?).<br>
<br>
So then "passive" members would not prevent amendments from being<br>
petitioned, while still remaining members.<br>
<br>
All groups such as this reflect a power-law curve (roughly: "80/20" rule)<br>
in participation. But individuals from that "long tail" can occasionally<br>
pop up and do something useful (my engagement of the election reform<br>
process is a case in point).<br>
<br>
It's always better to be inclusive, but then it seems to make sense to<br>
define procedures so that spotty participation doesn't bog down the<br>
process.<br>
<br>
Dan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, September 9, 2016 12:34 am, Michael Oghia wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Thank you for this impassioned defense, Mark. Indeed, with the idea that<br>
anyone can join the mailing list, listen in on the conversations, and<br>
choose to be as active or inactive as they want, any individual not only<br>
has the right to do so but increases the accountability and transparency<br>
of<br>
our processes.<br>
<br>
What I am thinking instead since this point has been raised is connected<br>
to<br>
the annual check-in process. Since we already check to see if people who<br>
have signed up have an active email address (for the purposes of voting),<br>
I<br>
think we should maintain a policy that as long as someone has signed up,<br>
has an active address, and is not engaging in blatantly obstructing<br>
behavior (e.g., spamming the list(s)), such members have every right to<br>
recieve updates and mails, as Mark so brilliantly highlighted.<br>
<br>
Moreover, discerning the criteria to essentially remove someone from<br>
NCSG/NCUC is a pandora's box in and of itself.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
-Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Mark Leiser <<a href="mailto:markleiser@gmail.com" target="_blank">markleiser@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I would vigorously object at the suggestion that "passive members" get<br>
kicked out the constituency and would suggest not only is it completely<br>
off<br>
course, but also offensive and counterproductive. I am one of the<br>
"passive<br>
members" you refer to and hardly ever post on these threads, yet I read<br>
every email and contemplate the implications of the discussions and<br>
debates<br>
that come into my Inbox. I may be a "passive member" here, which is what<br>
you seem to want to judge me on, but am active in promoting civil<br>
society's<br>
role in Internet Governance in my academic setting (I teach Internet<br>
Governance on our LLM Programme at my home institute and discuss NCSG's<br>
role within ICANN to a lesser extent when teaching at the London School<br>
of<br>
Economics.<br>
<br>
My "passivity" turns "active" when I take what I have learned and<br>
through<br>
silent contemplation, write extensively about the role of civil society<br>
in<br>
Internet Governance and particularly the NCSG's role in fighting back<br>
against IP owners and other non-state actors over governance.<br>
<br>
Enter shameless plug for my chapter in the forthcoming Oxford Handbook<br>
on<br>
the Law and Regulation of Technology. Oxford University Press:<br>
<a href="http://strathprints.strath.ac.uk/54396/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://strathprints.strath.ac.<wbr>uk/54396/</a><br>
<br>
I feel incredibly passionate about the role of NCUC and NCSG in holding<br>
ICANN to check. I didn't think I'd have to post here from time to time<br>
in<br>
order to validate my feelings...<br>
<br>
Mark<br>
<br>
<br>
Mark<br>
<br>
<br>
Mark Leiser, BSc, LLB (Hon) | Teaching Associate and PhD Candidate |<br>
University of Strathclyde | Faculty of Humanities and Social Science |<br>
The<br>
Law School l Centre for Internet Law and Policy | LH306 | Lord Hope<br>
Building | 141 St James Road | Glasgow G4 0LT | Tel. <a href="tel:%2B44%20141-548-2493" value="+441415482493" target="_blank">+44 141-548-2493</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Email <<a href="mailto:markleiser@gmail.com" target="_blank">markleiser@gmail.com</a>> | Bio<br>
<<a href="https://www.strath.ac.uk/humanities/courses/gradschool/studentprofiles/markleiser/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.strath.ac.uk/huma<wbr>nities/courses/gradschool/stud<wbr>entprofiles/markleiser/</a>><br>
| Twitter <<a href="http://twitter.com/#!/mleiser" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/#!/mleiser</a><wbr>> | LinkedIn<br>
<<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=189149411&trk=tab_pro" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/profi<wbr>le/view?id=189149411&trk=tab_<wbr>pro</a>> |<br>
Google+<br>
<<a href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/105289982691060086995/posts" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://plus.google.com/u/0/1<wbr>05289982691060086995/posts</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
On 9 September 2016 at 06:45, Raoul Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
This might be completely off course, but should we have a way to kick<br>
out<br>
passive members, who haven't done anything for ... one or two years?<br>
That<br>
ten percent could become unattainable eventually.<br>
<br>
-Raoul<br>
<br>
On 9 September 2016 at 02:59, Rafik Dammak <<a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com" target="_blank">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi everyone,<br>
<br>
I am glad to share with you this important announcement, on behalf of<br>
NCUC EC, to start the NCUC Bylaws change process.<br>
<br>
There were previously several attempts to amend the bylaws/charter to<br>
update it and align it with NCSG charter. For this time and as the<br>
bylaws<br>
allowed it, the NCUC EC decided to work as drafting team and propose<br>
an<br>
amended draft version for consultation based on previous drafting<br>
teams and<br>
volunteers work. I want to thank everyone who participated on those<br>
precedent efforts.<br>
<br>
In term of timeline, we are going to follow this basically:<br>
<br>
<br>
- *Call for input*, *first reading* from *9th September till 8th<br>
Octobe*r<br>
<br>
NCUC Charter Amendments<br>
<<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wYP4-JGKA_u6QligvViBkygzj8Q62kmFF-ky5XSWWDU/edit#heading=h.30j0zll" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/docum<wbr>ent/d/1wYP4-JGKA_u6QligvViBkyg<wbr>zj8Q62kmFF-ky5XSWWDU/edit#<wbr>heading=h.30j0zll</a>><br>
First Draft<br>
<br>
NB During this time, the EC will regularly monitor the doc for<br>
questions<br>
and comments and attempts to resolve them. Teleconferences can be held<br>
as<br>
well to resolve issues and update members on our progress<br>
<br>
- *First resolution of comments* 8th October to 9th October by<br>
NCUC EC<br>
- *Call for input, second reading* for amended draft, *9th<br>
October to 9th November*<br>
- *Consultation about the charter during NCUC ad-hoc meeting* in<br>
Hyderabad (tentative date is 6th November)<br>
- *Final call* : *9th November to 12th November* , to take note<br>
of<br>
any objections<br>
- *Final draft ready* by *13th November* to be approved by NCUC<br>
EC<br>
- * Voting *in parallel with NCUC election (tentative dates *14<br>
Nov. - 27 Nov*) to adopt the new charter.<br>
- *When adopted*, informing the ICANN staff about the new<br>
charter,<br>
process with ICANN board/staff/OEC (Organizational Effectiveness<br>
Committee) starts. That process is outlined and explained at the<br>
bottom<br>
<br>
As working method, we are going to follow this:<br>
<br>
<br>
- The clean version of draft is shared in google doc here<br>
<<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wYP4-JGKA_u6QligvViBkygzj8Q62kmFF-ky5XSWWDU/edit?usp=sharing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/docum<wbr>ent/d/1wYP4-JGKA_u6QligvViBkyg<wbr>zj8Q62kmFF-ky5XSWWDU/edit?usp=<wbr>sharing</a>><br>
and<br>
you can find the attached redline version to see the changes. For<br>
those who cannot access we can provide a doc version and will input<br>
their<br>
comments on their behalf. The google doc is in comments mode (and<br>
keeping<br>
trace of the discussion, please identify yourself when you comment)<br>
and<br>
your input is highly encouraged to be made there but discussion<br>
can<br>
happen in NCUC list.<br>
- Farzaneh as EC member will be the editor/penholder. The EC will<br>
respond to the comments and try solve any issue or questions.<br>
- During each readings, we will try to resolve comments, explain<br>
rationale behind amendments. We will keep a clean version as output<br>
from a<br>
reading .<br>
- We will organize conference calls during each<br>
reading/consultation to respond to questions and resolve pending<br>
issues, in<br>
addition to a dedicated session in Hyderabad ICANN meeting (where<br>
remote<br>
participation channels will be provided too)<br>
- We will organize a first a Q&A call about the process and to<br>
clarify about ICANN process side. We will create a page in our<br>
website to<br>
document the process and keep the documents there for tracking.<br>
- The NCUC EC will respond to questions/inquiries in the mailing<br>
list.<br>
<br>
<br>
*Adoption process*<br>
<br>
according to section VIII of the current bylaws, to amend the bylaws<br>
we<br>
need:<br>
<br>
*A. Changes to this charter may take place by vote of the<br>
Members. Changes may be proposed by the Executive Committee or by<br>
petition<br>
of the Members. A petition of ten (10) percent of the then-current<br>
members<br>
shall be sufficient for putting a charter amendment on the ballot for<br>
consideration at the next regular election. Alternatively, the<br>
Executive<br>
Committee by majority vote may propose an amendment for consideration<br>
at<br>
the next regular election.*<br>
<br>
*B. Charter amendments shall be passed if at least two<br>
thirds<br>
of the votes cast in the election favor its adoption (provided 40% or<br>
more<br>
of the eligible Voters cast a ballot in the election).*<br>
<br>
the voting/election period will take this on consideration (under<br>
discussion currently) with regard to the ballot and procedures to be<br>
defined by the NCUC EC.<br>
*Board/OEC process:*<br>
<br>
At a high level, the GNSO Charter Amendment Process involves a total<br>
of<br>
four basic phases<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
· Amendment preparations and approval by the charter-amending<br>
community;<br>
<br>
· Staff review and analysis of amendments for potential ICANN<br>
organization impacts;<br>
<br>
· Review of amendments and opportunity for comment by the<br>
multistakeholder community; and<br>
<br>
· Full Board review and action<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
According to ICANN staff, the entire Board review process (which<br>
involves the last three phases of the process) seems to now be taking<br>
about<br>
6 or 7 months (calculating from the formal submission of the<br>
amendments to<br>
staff). The specifics of the process look like this:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
*SUMMARY OF GNSO CHARTER AMENDMENT PROCESS (Excerpts)*<br>
<br>
*On 28 September 2013, the ICANN Board established a process for the<br>
amendment of GNSO Stakeholder Group and Constituency Charters. That<br>
process<br>
is as follows:*<br>
<br>
*Phase I: Amendment Preparation*<br>
<br>
*GNSO Stakeholder Groups (SGs) and Constituencies should formulate<br>
charter amendments through their own internal processes and notify<br>
ICANN<br>
Staff as early as practicable (at **<a href="mailto:policy-staff@icann.org" target="_blank">policy-staff@icann.org</a><br>
<<a href="mailto:policy-staff@icann.org" target="_blank">policy-staff@icann.org</a>>) upon initiation and completion (approval) of<br>
such<br>
efforts.*<br>
<br>
*Phase II: Staff Review*<br>
<br>
*Upon formal receipt of the proposed amendment(s) approved by the<br>
community group, ICANN staff will analyze the proposal and, within 10<br>
business days, submit the community proposal with a report to the<br>
appropriate Board committee identifying any fiscal or liability<br>
concerns.*<br>
<br>
*Phase III: Public Comments*<br>
<br>
*After Board committee review of the Staff report and the proposed<br>
charter amendments, the Board committee will direct the opening of a<br>
Public<br>
Comment Forum. Upon completion of the Forum, within 30 calendar days,<br>
staff<br>
will provide a report to the Board committee summarizing the community<br>
feedback.*<br>
<br>
*Phase IV: Board Review*<br>
<br>
*At the next available opportunity after the delivery and publication<br>
of<br>
the staff report, the appropriate Board committee shall review the<br>
proposed<br>
charter amendments, the staff report and any community feedback and<br>
make a<br>
recommendation to the Board.*<br>
<br>
*After receiving a recommendation from the committee, the Board shall<br>
either:*<br>
<br>
*a. **Recognize the proposed charter amendment by a simple<br>
majority<br>
vote; or*<br>
<br>
*b. **Reject the proposed amendment by a supermajority (2/3) vote<br>
and provide a specific rationale for its concerns.*<br>
<br>
*c. **If neither above condition is met, the Board will ask for<br>
further explanation of the proposed amendments by the community.*<br>
<br>
*In its review of the proposed amendments, the ICANN Board may ask<br>
questions and otherwise consult with the affected SG or Constituency.<br>
If it<br>
is not feasible for the Board to take action on the proposed<br>
amendments<br>
after two meetings, the Board shall report to the affected SG or<br>
Constituency the circumstance(s) that prevented it from making a final<br>
action and its best estimate of the time required to reach an action.<br>
That<br>
report is deemed an "action" under this process. If it is not feasible<br>
for<br>
the Board to take action on the proposed amendments after four<br>
meetings (or<br>
after a total of six scheduled meetings), the proposed community<br>
amendments<br>
will be deemed effective.*<br>
<br>
<br>
The full process is posted on the ICANN GNSO web site at the bottom of<br>
this page<br>
–<a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/about/stakeholders-constituencies" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://gnso.icann.org/en/ab<wbr>out/stakeholders-constituencie<wbr>s</a>.<br>
A pdf version of the process can be viewed and downloaded from this<br>
link -<br>
<a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/about/stakeholders-constituencies" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://gnso.icann.org/en/about<wbr>/stakeholders-constituencies</a><br>
/charter-amendment-process-28s<wbr>ep13-en.pdf<br>
<br>
Please feel free to ask any question or clarification about the<br>
process<br>
and the bylaw draft. We need everyone participation in this process.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Rafik Dammak<br>
<br>
NCUC chair<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
-- <br>
--------------<br>
Matthew Shears<br>
Global Internet Policy and Human Rights<br>
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)<br>
<a href="tel:%2B%2044%20771%202472987" value="+447712472987" target="_blank">+ 44 771 2472987</a></font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" target="_blank">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>