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    It won't matter much but I think we should have gone with the NCUC's
    bylaw. <br>
    <br>
    I'll be fine with doing it the NCSG's way, but I don't think the
    rationale used is a good one. What's before was before, what's now
    is now. Membership's fees not being collected is materially
    different in my opinion. Failure to enforce should not render the
    texts inoperative for the future.<br>
    <br>
    Nicolas<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2015-11-25 12:32 PM, Mueller, Milton
      L wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:DM2PR07MB703F3DE16E26FFCAE8057FAA1050@DM2PR07MB703.namprd07.prod.outlook.com"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">OK,
            sorry for the confusion. I agree that it probably won’t
            matter much and I agree that the priority is to get the
            election underway and completed on schedule. So whatever
            path gets that done, let’s do. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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          0in 0in 4.0pt">
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            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                    style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
                  NCUC-EC [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ncuc-ec-bounces@lists.ncuc.org">mailto:ncuc-ec-bounces@lists.ncuc.org</a>]
                  <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Drake<br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:11 AM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> William Drake <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch"><william.drake@uzh.ch></a><br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> Exec. Comm <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ncuc-ec@lists.ncuc.org"><ncuc-ec@lists.ncuc.org></a>;
                  NCUC-discuss <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org"><ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org></a>;
                  Tapani Tarvainen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tapani.tarvainen@effi.org"><tapani.tarvainen@effi.org></a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCUC-EC] [NCUC-DISCUSS] NCUC EC
                  Elections - Voting Starts tomorrow 23 Nov 2015<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Good morning<o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">So here’s where it seems we are.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">1.  Since at least 2012 (I don’t have
              saved mail about 2011), prior to my being chair, the
              ballot sent out in each NCUC election have included text
              saying we will use the NCSG Charter’s system of vote
              weighting. I suppose the rationales were that the Charter
              was written a couple years after the Bylaws (basically by
              the same people if memory serves) and hence could be
              viewed as the more current thinking; NCUC is a part of
              NCSG and should conform with its procedures where
              possible; the Bylaws have a number of provisions that
              never seemed to correspond to reality (like membership
              fees) and others that were rendered inoperable by the
              formation of NCSG (like having a Policy Committee and
              electing NCUC Councilors), so people involved in the
              ‘inner circles’ of constituency tended to say let’s follow
              the parts that still make sense and revise the Bylaws
              later (which I could never get help with); and it would be
              sort of unusual to tell large member organizations that
              they get 4 votes in the one election but only 2 in the
              other.  So I suggested ok let’s continue with the
              practice.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">2.  Nobody on or off the EC ever said
              there was a problem with doing this.  That includes the
              less than handful of people who are now saying there is a
              problem with doing this.  And again, I emphasize, this
              language has been included in the text of every ballot
              people have used to vote ever since.  It didn’t just pop
              out of nowhere like magic.  I’m sorry if someone never
              thought about it before, but it would seem a strange
              procedure to turn on a dime now and take votes away from
              certain members because they have.  We shouldn’t bounce
              back and forth based on a few people complaining no matter
              how disputatious the dialogue is, that’s not a
              professional process to follow in a network of 450+
              members, many of whom are new and may find it
              discouraging.  If we were to make a change now, one would
              think it should at least be based on a vote of the current
              EC.  But the only EC members to weigh in have been Milton
              (the nonvoting Treasurer) and I, and we don’t agree.  This
              doesn’t seem sufficient grounds for a change of course.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">3.  There’s no reason to believe that
              following the Charter system would impact the election
              outcome in one way rather than another.  On the ballot
              list Maryam sent me, there are 22 organizations that would
              have 4 votes rather than 2 under the Charter model.
               There’s no way to know whether they will all vote, or if
              they do how those 44 ‘extra’ votes would be allocated with
              respect to the 3 of 6 EC slots that are contested.  Same
              for all the previous years.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">4.  Meanwhile we are losing precious
              days in the election cycle while people argue the point,
              which could negatively impact turn-out.  We could let
              things drift for a few more days and see if more people
              weigh in but I strongly suspect this would not produce a
              clear consensus in either direction, and inevitably
              someone could be unhappy with either solution.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">We need to get the new EC in place to
              make appointments for 2016, prepare for the February
              Noncontracted Parties House meeting, and on and on.  So I
              would strongly suggest we just proceed on the same basis
              as previous years and if for next year some people want to
              change the voting weighting let’s have a thorough
              discussion of the options rather than a 12th hour debate
              involving a handful of people.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">FWIW with respect to the revision, I
              sent the Bylaws Team list a set of suggestions in August
              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/bylaws/2015-August/000060.html">http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/bylaws/2015-August/000060.html</a>
              that included addressing different weightings in the two
              models.  Nobody has responded to this but I would think
              that is the appropriate setting in which to take up the
              matter.<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
            <div>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 24, 2015, at 3:55 PM,
                    William Drake <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>>
                    wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Hi<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <blockquote
                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 24, 2015, at
                              9:52 AM, Tapani Tarvainen <<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:tapani.tarvainen@effi.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tapani.tarvainen@effi.org">tapani.tarvainen@effi.org</a></a>>
                              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Bill,<br>
                                <br>
                                Without digging into email archives, my
                                recollection is that in 2013 I<br>
                                first made the voter list using 2-1-1
                                weights as per our bylaws, but<br>
                                you decided to use 4-2-1 instead on
                                grounds of consistency with NCSG<br>
                                and precedent (apparently it had been
                                done that way previously),<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Right.  And nobody argued
                            against it then or at any time since when
                            the same thing’s been recurrently stated,
                            which makes this little episode a bit
                            unhelpful.  We should not be inconsistent
                            with the NCSG charter, and one of the tasks
                            for the Bylaws Team in revising will be to
                            make sure we bring our procedures into
                            alignment with it.  Until that is done we
                            try to comform where we can.  <o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote
                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">So, history and
                                consistency with NCSG favours 4-2-1,
                                bylaws say 2-1-1.<br>
                                <br>
                                The bylaws also say that<br>
                                <br>
                                "The Chair shall also: [...] Establish
                                ballots for voting, for review<br>
                                by the EC"<br>
                                <br>
                                and<br>
                                <br>
                                "The Executive Committee shall have the
                                following duties: [...]<br>
                                Approve all ballots for online
                                elections"<br>
                                <br>
                                So, over to you and NCUC EC. <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Nobody on the EC has
                          opposed the practice previously and I’m not
                          seeing anyone reversing course now.  If no
                          objections are received by tomorrow morning
                          CET I suggest we just get on with it, we’re
                          already losing two days and Glen is waiting to
                          send the ballots.  We will have a shortened
                          election period this time so hopefully
                          everyone will respond promptly when ballots
                          are sent.  <b>Please do check your spam
                            folders to make sure that mail from </b><b><span
                              style="font-family:"Helvetica
                              Neue",serif"><a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:tally@icann.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tally@icann.org">tally@icann.org</a></a>
                              does not get stuck.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-family:"Helvetica
                            Neue",serif">Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">*********************************************************<br>
                          William J. Drake<br>
                          International Fellow & Lecturer<br>
                            Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ<br>
                            University of Zurich, Switzerland<br>
                          Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, <br>
                            ICANN, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://www.ncuc.org/">www.ncuc.org</a><br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch">william.drake@uzh.ch</a> (direct), <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com">wjdrake@gmail.com</a></a> (lists),<br>
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://www.williamdrake.org/">www.williamdrake.org</a><br>
                          <i>Internet Governance: The
                            NETmundial Roadmap </i><a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://goo.gl/sRR01q"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://goo.gl/sRR01q">http://goo.gl/sRR01q</a></a><br>
*********************************************************<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
                    NCUC-EC mailing list<br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:NCUC-EC@lists.ncuc.org">NCUC-EC@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-ec</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">*********************************************************<br>
                    William J. Drake<br>
                    International Fellow & Lecturer<br>
                      Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ<br>
                      University of Zurich, Switzerland<br>
                    Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, <br>
                      ICANN, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://www.ncuc.org">www.ncuc.org</a><br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch">william.drake@uzh.ch</a> (direct), <a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com">wjdrake@gmail.com</a></a> (lists),<br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://www.williamdrake.org">www.williamdrake.org</a><br>
                    <i>Internet Governance: The NETmundial Roadmap </i><a
                      moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://goo.gl/sRR01q"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://goo.gl/sRR01q">http://goo.gl/sRR01q</a></a><br>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Ncuc-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a>
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