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This is a more complex question than meets the eyes ;) <br>
<br>
There is probably 3 ways to go about it.<br>
<br>
À propos de ICANN<br>
À propos d'ICANN<br>
À propos de l'ICANN<br>
<br>
and I guess the last one is the one I liked the least. But I'm more
than willing to go with it though.<br>
<br>
It is true that we commonly say l'ONU, and that we have used the <b>l'</b>
most everywhere else when it comes to International orgs. However,
it's sometimes wrong. And more often than we might think.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">L<b>'élision</b> consiste, en règle
générale, à remplacer par une apostrophe une des voyelles finales
"a, e, i" d'un mot, lorsqu'il ce mot est suivi d'un autre
commençant par une voyelle "a, e, i, o, u" ou commençant par un "
h " muet.</blockquote>
<br>
However, we do not think about ICANN (at least I don't) as "L<strike>a
</strike>ICANN" or "L<strike>e </strike>ICANN" that we could strip
that <strike>a </strike>or that <strike>e</strike> and replace it
with an <b>*'*</b>. <br>
<br>
For me, it's more of a "de ICANN" situation, as in "le problème d<strike>e
</strike>ICANN est que bla bla" and not "le problème de l<strike>a </strike>ICANN
..." (where you would have two <i>déterminants</i> in front of the
word) and that's why I abbreviated it like I did, using the above
rule. In essence, I determined that the sentenced to be shortened by
the <i>élision</i> was<br>
<br>
1) À propos d<strike>e </strike>ICANN<br>
<br>
and not<br>
<br>
2) À propos de l<strike>a </strike>ICANN<br>
<br>
<br>
So that was one grammatical reason. But a grammatical reason that
hinges fully on the first determination being right (a determination
that could be challenged: it *is* possible to have "de la" in front
of a word: "de la tarte"). So the determination itself seems to
hinge on what is the most appropriate word category for ICANN. Is it
like a pie or more like Internet? Notice, not <strike>the </strike>Internet.<br>
<br>
So the reason ceases to be solely grammatical and becomes logical
and relates to a category mistake that is often made with many
process or phenomenon that are (wrongly, IMO) thing-ified (reified).
<br>
<br>
I may have been too polluted by English (please take no offense, I
love Poe's idiom), but for the same reason I do not feel it right to
say "The ICANN is ..." and that it sounds better to say "ICANN is",
for instance; and for the same reason that it sounds better to say
"UNICEF is" rather than "The UNICEF is ...", I feel it it is ugly
form on top of bad philosophy to emphasize a reified (thing-ified)
outcome, for some words referring to processes and phenomena. <br>
<br>
Yes, English uses "The UN ..." quite a bit when it comes to the
United Nations. I have no idea why and I'll grant that it almost
feels wrong today to say "UN is ...". I feel this form ("... the UN
...") is a wrong that will endure because it has, basically. But at
the same time it doesn't look like we are going there with (<strike>the</strike>)
ICANN or (<strike>the</strike>) UNICEF ...<br>
<br>
I think that logically, it is a category mistake, the same that many
people make when they say "*the* Internet" (or, its French
equivalent, "l'Internet"). Internet is not a thing, and language
shouldn't thing-ified it. Internet is a process, an emerging
phenomenon. So is ICANN!<br>
<br>
So ... the fact that ICANN's first letter means, precisely,
Internet, the same word people so often wrongly use a "the" in front
of, kinds of stack on that first determination on which the
grammatical rules is then applied. <br>
<br>
When we use the "ONU" acronym, it is the translation of the UN
acronym, and it stands for "Organisation des Nations Unies". The
word "Organisation" calls for the l' in a way that seems impossible
to resist, but I would argue that sometimes, it is indeed wrong to
think <br>
<br>
"la mission de la ONU"<br>
<br>
and that we should have probably thought<br>
<br>
"la mission de ONU"<br>
<br>
and that, as a result, we should have probably said "la mission
d'ONU" instead of "la mission de l'ONU". <br>
<br>
But I am well aware that I will not find that "correct" élision
anywhere and that usage has deeply ingrained "de l'ONU". <br>
<br>
I wouldn't make a case for ceasing to use l'ONU, you know. But I
would resist (as I have in the past) any attempt by proofreaders to
make me change ICANN into l'ICANN <b>in a personal text of mine</b>.
This not being a personal text of mine, I will go with whatever you
think is best. I guess I felt like I would preemptively right a soon
to be aesthetical wrong :) and you caught me red handed in language
activism ;)<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/03/2015 9:56 AM, Mathias HOUNGBO
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5508328C.9090706@houngbo.net" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Hello Nicolas<br>
<br>
why you write "À propos d'ICANN" and not "À propos de l'ICANN" ?<br>
<br>
we said "À propos de l'ONU" here <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.un.org/fr/aboutun/">http://www.un.org/fr/aboutun/</a><br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">"And then God said Noah make me a backup I need to format"
"Mefies toi de la médiocrité, c'est la moisissure de l'esprit"
--
Made in Bénin - <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mathias.houngbo.net">http://mathias.houngbo.net</a>
Président ONG IGBANet - <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.igbanet.org/">http://www.igbanet.org/</a>
System and Network Administrator at BCEAO Bénin
CTO & Co-Founder at STARSOFT INFORMATIQUE</pre>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 13/03/2015 20:05, Nicolas Adam a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:55033507.5090401@gmail.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Here is the first half, which is the most i could do today. <br>
<br>
I send it right now because I won't be able to work more on it
before Monday night, so if someone else wanted to do some work
on it then they can do so without redoing what I just did. Since
there is quite a bit of neologism that has arisen around
Internet Governance, and translating them with equivalents (with
the view that they stay stable) isn't always a straightforward
process, don't hesitate to discuss the choices I made with me. <br>
<br>
Cheers!<br>
<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/03/2015 11:34 AM, Stephanie
Perrin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5503038E.9000104@mail.utoronto.ca"
type="cite">Huguenot... we bailed out for England so long ago
we are rusty! I must admit it was embarrassing when I lived in
Quebec, where folks are not taught much history of those
massacres, and did not understand the explanation. You, on
the other hand, have such an english name....? <br>
Suppose we take the text in word and divide it up? I have
plunked the online version into word, attached. <br>
cheers Stephanie <br>
PS some of these expressions must have already been
translated, anybody know which document would be easiest to
follow? I dont fancy dredging through meeting transcripts if
I can avoid it... <br>
On 2015-03-13 10:57, Nicolas Adam wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Ma langue maternelle est le français.
I can help with the vetting and writing. You have french
names Stéphanie Pérrin ;) <br>
<br>
Nicolas <br>
<br>
On 13/03/2015 10:29 AM, Stephanie Perrin wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Yes we do, I am not a native speaker
but can do a rough translation which we could have vetted
by a francophone. <br>
Stephanie Perrin <br>
<br>
On 2015-03-13 4:04, Arsène Tungali wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">This is a great news. <br>
We may need to think of French translation as well. Do
we have french <br>
speakers in the NCUC? <br>
<br>
2015-03-13 6:44 UTC+02:00, Jia He <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:hejia925@gmail.com"><hejia925@gmail.com></a>:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear All, <br>
Yes, this idea is great. I have a face-to-face
conversation with Peter <br>
this morning . For the brochure translation, we can
divide the task into <br>
two parts. each of our both can translate a half ,
then we invite the <br>
experts in CCTEAG (Chinese Community Translation
Expert Advisory Group) to <br>
Check it. CCTEAG is organized by my academy, so it is
easy to connect with <br>
those experienced experts who participate in ICANN
meeting for many times. <br>
Meanwhile, those experts can make sure the words we
translated is in the <br>
right way. <br>
<br>
We will see the Chinese NCUC brochure in Argentina. <br>
<br>
Regards, <br>
Jia <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2015-03-13 0:17 GMT+08:00 Amr Elsadr <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org"><aelsadr@egyptig.org></a>:
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Peter, <br>
<br>
This sounds fantastic. Exactly the sort of work a
regional representative <br>
on the EC should be undertaking!! The best of luck
to you and Jia on your <br>
endeavour. <br>
<br>
Thanks. <br>
<br>
Amr <br>
<br>
On Mar 12, 2015, at 4:37 PM, PeterGreen <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:seekcommunications@hotmail.com"><seekcommunications@hotmail.com></a>
<br>
wrote: <br>
<br>
Hello NCUCers, <br>
<br>
As the Asian/Pacific Representative on the Executive
Committee, I would <br>
like to take this opportunity to formally announce
that we are launching a <br>
"*NCUC <br>
Chinese Translation Project*". <br>
<br>
In this Project, we will translate NCUC materials
into Chinese, enabling <br>
more Chinese to be involved in our Constituency, to
that extent to <br>
commit <br>
to the most diversified Constituency within ICANN
community in terms of <br>
language. <br>
<br>
This Project will be taken by a translation team
under the Department of <br>
International Affairs and Policy Analysis of China
Organizational Name <br>
Administration Center (CONAC) - my home institution,
together with my <br>
Chinese Colleague Jia He who recently joined NCUC. <br>
<br>
Firstly, we will start by translating NCUC Brochure,
which is currently <br>
written in Enligh and Spanish, available at <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.ncuc.org/brochure/">http://www.ncuc.org/brochure/</a>
<br>
. <br>
<br>
After that we will tranlate other materials into
Chinese according to an <br>
EC scheduled priorities list (which is to be
determined). <br>
<br>
It is aimed that we could circulate Chinese vesion
NCUC Brochures during <br>
ICANN 53 to be held in Buenos Aires in late June. <br>
<br>
In launching this thread, hope more NCUCers who
would like to join in <br>
other kind of language tranlation work take up a
similar initiative. <br>
<br>
Thanks very much for your attention. <br>
<br>
Best Regards <br>
<br>
Zhang Zuan / Peter Green <br>
<br>
<br>
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