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    I would just like to add a big thanks to Bill for writing this
    email, and to all for their enthusiasm.  I will admit that I am
    already struggling to meet my commitments on the GNSO, the two
    working groups I am on , and the privacy and human rights
    commitments I have made, so adding another list is a wee bit
    suicidal.  But I too agree that it is critical that folks
    collaborate as much as possible and get help figuring out how to
    make a contribution<br>
    Thanks again Bill, working my way through the archives and other
    information gradually.<br>
    Cheers Stephanie<br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14-11-16 4:47 AM, William Drake
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A0E9074-4616-49B3-86E9-F65463FDAB9C@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      Hi
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">[snipping]<br class="">
        <br class="">
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Nov 14, 2014, at 10:53 PM, Walid AL-SAQAF
              <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:wsaqaf@GMAIL.COM" class="">wsaqaf@GMAIL.COM</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <div class="">
              <p dir="ltr" class="">Thanks for the frank email, which I
                found really well-thought and sums up some of what I had
                personally gone through when I first joined about couple
                of years ago. It also reflects on your sincere desire to
                address issues that often go unnoticed yet are
                fundamental to the long-term effectiveness of our
                constituency. </p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          From my standpoint, it’s not so much that they’ve gone
          unnoticed—I at least have sent multiple messages about this to
          the various lists over the past few years and, as I have
          noted, tried to get EC and regular members to work together in
          teams to address them.  Rather, the problem has been that
          enthusiasm for doing something is bursty, and gets expressed
          but not sustained; people offer to lead or participate in
          collaborative efforts and then…sort of drift off.
           Understandable, people get busy, and actually volunteering
          time can slip down one's priorities list when other things in
          life become pressing.  But to get forward movement, we need at
          least a couple core people who are willing to do things like
          coordinate a team (a couple hours a week at most) and a larger
          set that’s interested enough to participate in e-discussions
          and pitch in as able.  Mancur Olsen’s 1965 book on the logic
          of collective action provides a plausible way of understanding
          this.<br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <p dir="ltr" class="">While I think the situation needs to
              be analyzed more thoroughly, I suggest that you host a
              virtual Skype chat with some relatively new NCUC members
              who are eager to participate but have not yet been able to
              crack the ICANN code. </p>
          </blockquote>
          We already have a monthly NCSG policy meeting on Adobe Connect
          that provides an easy way for people to begin cracking the
          code on how the policy process works, and I was happy to see
          20 people on the call the other day.  I’d strongly suggest
          making time for these.  We could in addition do Adobe meetings
          at the constituency level on the in-reach/engagement
          challenges if people want.  I don’t know ex ante if these
          would need to be as frequent, but if the desire emerges and is
          sustained that could happen.<br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <p dir="ltr" class="">What I suggest is to write and keep
              updated a wiki about NCUC with all the necessary
              information formulated in a simple and easy to understand
              way. It should also include updated sections on specific
              working groups including who is working and what and
              timelines, etc. and links to discussions that are going on
              and even videos and other stuff when possible. </p>
          </blockquote>
          <div>This is a nice idea, but we need people who are willing
            to actually do it, rather than say “someone" should do it.
            We are a platform/network for volunteers, not an
            organization with a bunch of paid staff, so people have to
            step forward and collaborate to make it happen.</div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <p dir="ltr" class="">Secondly, I suggest developing an
              electronic form (Google form perhaps) to be filled by
              every new NCUC member and those who are still trying to
              have a role. The survey should be simple yet comperhensive
              enough to know:</p>
            <p dir="ltr" class="">1) How well does the member know about
              NCUC and ICANN<br class="">
              2) What motivated him/her to join NCUC<br class="">
              3) Which areas or working groups already active within
              NCSG (to be listed and linked to their corresponding
              sections in the wiki) are most appealing to him/her <br
                class="">
              4) What particular new ideas or initiatives could the new
              member bring to NCUC<br class="">
              5) How much time (in hours per week/month) could he put in
              voluntary work to support NCUC within the areas answered
              in (3) above<br class="">
              6) Whether he/she would need mentorship or could suffice
              with the introductory meeting and documentation<br
                class="">
              7) Any other thoughts about engagement in NCUC </p>
          </blockquote>
          Ditto<br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <p dir="ltr" class=""> I welcome your comments about the
              above and I sincerely hope that this could be a turning
              point to the better for NCUC's engagement efforts.</p>
          </blockquote>
          Well, my first comment would be to suggest that you sign up
          for the Membership Affairs Team, as I see this morning that
          Stephanie Perrin has done.  If you were willing to deploy some
          the ideas and enthusiasm shown here to coordinating it, that
          would be even better :-)  [be careful what you wish for]  I
          think it’s helpful (although not strictly necessary) if EC
          members serve as coordinators to ensure three-way info flow
          (EC, teams, general membership), and unless another AP
          candidate appears today, you should be on the 2015 EC :-)  </div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div>
          <div>
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
              <div class="">On Nov 15, 2014, at 2:16 PM, Benjamin
                Akinmoyeje <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:benakin@gmail.com" class="">benakin@gmail.com</a>>
                wrote:</div>
              <div class="">
                <div dir="ltr" class="">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">So here is my suggestion - can the
                    active participants start identifying interested
                    newbies and start given out simple tasks with
                    deliverable dates and allow individuals to start
                    earning reputation for their level of willing
                    engagement.</div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br class="">
            </div>
            I don’t know how easy this model would be to act on, as the
            most active participants are really busy with working groups
            and other responsibilities, and also may not have any idea
            how to identify interested newbies.  I would again suggest
            that the latter be proactive themselves by joining the
            Membership Affairs team and discussing possibilities with
            people who have chosen to opt into the work there.  I’m a
            member.<br class="">
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
              <div dir="ltr" class="">
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Now on a personal note, thank you Bill, I
                  will join those lists and start trying to read up and
                  understand some of these issues - I always like to be
                  constructive in my contributions.  I hope by the time
                  I understand the issues , the present issues wont have
                  advanced.</div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br class="">
          <div class="">Your contributions have been very constructive
            indeed, thank you.</div>
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div class="">Best</div>
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div class="">Bill</div>
        </div>
        <div><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <p dir="ltr" class="">Sincerely, </p>
            <p dir="ltr" class="">Walid</p>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Nov 14, 2014 4:21 PM, "William
              Drake" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com" class="">wjdrake@gmail.com</a>>
              wrote:<br type="attribution" class="">
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote">
                <div class="">Hi
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class=""><i class="">Another long message alert</i><br
                      class="">
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">As I work my way through a backlog of
                      communications I’d now like to respond to the
                      thread begun by Benjamin under the NCUC ELECTIONS
                      2014: NOMINATIONS OPEN 3 - 16 November heading.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">The entire ICANN community has long
                      struggled to entice “new blood” into active
                      *working* participation in its activities (as
                      opposed to just showing up at meetings when funded
                      etc).  As a first step, we have often focused on
                      outreach to potential new participants, especially
                      in developing countries.  When I was on the GNSO
                      Council 2009-2112, Rafik, myself and a few others
                      pushed a lot on this with business counterparts
                      and the board, and often got fairly blank stares
                      in return. A number of people worked on developing
                      a cross-community Outreach Committee to coordinate
                      efforts, but the Commercial Stakeholder Group
                      killed that.  Then when Fadi came in he hired all
                      kinds of Stakeholder Engagement staff including
                      regional VPs, and they sort of took over a lot of
                      the outreach work on a fairly top-down basis (they
                      even have regional strategic plans, <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://community.icann.org/display/gsergnlstrtgcplns/Regional+Strategic+Plans-Final"
                        target="_blank" class="">https://community.icann.org/display/gsergnlstrtgcplns/Regional+Strategic+Plans-Final</a>). 
                      But some useful things have begun to happen, such
                      as targeted “what to expect” webinars before
                      meetings (NC did one), targeted in situ gatherings
                      during the meetings (NCUC’s co-organized two with
                      local civil society, open to all in the SG), etc. 
                      These are in addition to the well known Fellows
                      Program that will pay for developing country folks
                      to come to up to three ICANN meetings.  <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/fellowships-2012-02-25-en"
                        target="_blank" class="">https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/fellowships-2012-02-25-en</a> 
                      While that program has tended to focus on steering
                      people toward the At Large community, the three NC
                      chairs do speak to them at each meeting and a
                      number of people have joined afterwards.  In sum,
                      I think outreach is working much less well than it
                      should be, but at least it’s a known problem
                      that’s getting resources now and there are
                      processes in place to build out.  And as our
                      membership creeps toward the 400 mark, we can’t
                      really complain that NCUC is not growing.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">The flip-side of the coin, “in-reach,”
                      arguably has received less focused attention. 
                      Often ICANN succeeds in getting people to join
                      some community grouping like a GNSO constituency
                      where they may take part in mail list discussions
                      and elections and even attend a meeting or two
                      when funded, but they don’t easily find their way
                      through the massive amounts of information and
                      procedural complexities of the ICANNsphere and
                      latch onto something that entices them into a
                      deeper, working engagement.  It is especially
                      tough for newbies, who can face a steep learning
                      curve (and that’s all of us—I worked on Internet
                      governance stuff for a decade in UN and other
                      environments but when I got on the GNSO Council it
                      took me a half a year to figure out what was
                      really going on, which is hardly unusual).  There
                      are all kinds of problems here: an information
                      architecture that makes finding things that’d be
                      of particular interest unnecessarily difficult;
                      linguistic and organizational cultural challenges;
                      information/experience asymmetries; complex
                      working methods; the constant sense that you’ve
                      walked into a conversation that’s been going on
                      for five years and there’s all kinds of embedded
                      history in the interactions that you can’t
                      immediately understand; sometimes weak incentives
                      and difficulties in connecting ICANN issues with
                      ones’ own priorities; etc. </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">When I first stood for election to
                      chair two years I suggested that NCUC create
                      ‘teams’ bringing together EC members and regular
                      members to work on constituency-level
                      organizational challenges.  <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/2012-November/010875.html"
                        target="_blank" class="">http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/2012-November/010875.html</a> 
                      Among these I suggested an outreach team and an
                      in-reach team.  For various reasons, they never
                      really attracted the sustained coordination and
                      engagement needed to take off, and were then
                      folded together into a ‘Membership Affairs Team,’
                      which suffered more or less the same fate.  But
                      this team still exists, at least on paper. 
                      There’s even a dormant mail list <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/membership-affairs"
                        target="_blank" class="">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/membership-affairs</a> with
                      nine people subscribed to it.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">If people would like to take another
                      shot at developing and sustaining a conversation
                      about ways to improve/facilitate member engagement
                      in NCUC/NCSG, a simple approach would be to join
                      that mail list and use it.  If we want to talk
                      about mentee relationships or ways to make things
                      more transparent to newbie members or how to get
                      people involved in actual policy discussions
                      including in GNSO working groups or anything else
                      of that kind, this is a ready-made place to do
                      that.  Just one thought though: the most helpful
                      sorts of interventions that are likely to go
                      somewhere are ones where someone says “I will work
                      with whomever on xyz”.  Comments about how an
                      unnamed “someone” should do something tend not to
                      lead anywhere, especially if the most plausible
                      “someone" is already putting in a lot of volunteer
                      time doing other things.  The only way to make
                      such things work is to broaden the pool of
                      engagement, so that all the burden doesn’t fall on
                      one or two sets of shoulders.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">On a related note, other things people
                      can do in NCUC/NCSG, as Tapani and Dan point out
                      below, is to to look through what already exists. 
                      We have a website that was constructed and is
                      maintained by the volunteer labor of colleagues;
                      lots there to look at, and opportunities to help
                      update and grow it.  And we have open archive mail
                      lists at the website NCUC <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://lists.ncuc.org/" target="_blank"
                        class="">http://lists.ncuc.org/</a>.  NCSG does
                      too, although they are a bit more spread around,
                      some being at Syracuse U and some at IP Justice (I
                      suppose it would make sense to have links to all
                      those at some central place, e.g. <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/NCSG+Email+Discussion+Archive"
                        target="_blank" class="">https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/NCSG+Email+Discussion+Archive</a>)</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">And, one can apply for some travel
                      support when our new policy goes into action next
                      month.  While ICANN has the best remote
                      participation facilities in the business, it does
                      seem that the members who end up getting more
                      deeply involved are those who’ve been able to
                      physically attend a meeting or two and get the
                      bug.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">A last point: there is currently a
                      process underway where the chairs of the SOs, ACs,
                      SGs, and C’s talk on the phone monthly to take the
                      collective temperature and brainstorm.  I’ve
                      reported on this before, and the transcripts and
                      recordings are at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="https://community.icann.org/display/soaceabout/Event+Calendar"
                        target="_blank" class="">https://community.icann.org/display/soaceabout/Event+Calendar</a>. 
                      We also have started meeting on the Fridays before
                      ICANN meetings to talk, and in LA decided to form
                      some little subgroups to develop agendas on
                      problems we all think confront the whole community
                      with respect to participation etc.  These will
                      then be discussed and worked on by the larger
                      group of chairs and staff, details TBD.  Anyway,
                      I’m working on “in-reach” with a couple other
                      chairs and the Global Engagement staff, and on our
                      last call proposed that we use a simple 2 x 2
                      matrix to crowdsource ideas about the problem. 
                      The four boxes of the matrix will include on one
                      axis 1) barriers to fuller engagement and 2)
                      possible solutions, and on the other axis 3)
                      general considerations applicable across SOACSGCs,
                      and 4) considerations that are specific to
                      particular SOACSGCs.  So we’re going to start
                      filling those in with the other chairs to see if
                      we can move toward some shared definition of
                      problem and general/localized solutions.  </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">If anyone would like to provide some
                      input from an NCUC perspective that would be
                      great, shoot me a note and I’ll include it in our
                      discussion.  To be more specific: if you have
                      ideas about particular barriers to engagement in
                      NCUC/SG and possible solutions to these, please do
                      pass them along, either to me, or by joining the
                      Membership Affairs list mentioned above and
                      growing it there.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">Thanks,</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">Bill</div>
                    <div class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                          <div class="">On Nov 8, 2014, at 4:04 PM,
                            Benjamin Akinmoyeje <<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:benakin@gmail.com"
                              target="_blank" class="">benakin@gmail.com</a>>
                            wrote:</div>
                          <br class="">
                          <div class=""><span class="">Here is a
                              suggestion I will like to see and I won't
                              know if I am speaking the mind of the new
                              members who will like to engage actively
                              but just feel inadequate - is it possible
                              to have a position on the EC that is more
                              like an understudy position. This way
                              there is an active political will to
                              bringing on board new members.</span></div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                        <div class="">On Nov 8, 2014, at 8:40 PM, Seun
                          Ojedeji <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank" class="">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>
                          wrote:</div>
                        <br class="">
                        <div class=""><span class="">I doubt mentees
                            list (i presume mailing list) will make any
                            much difference. The experience will happen
                            where the action is;</span></div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><span class="">
                        <div class=""><span class=""><br class="">
                          </span></div>
                        <div class=""><span class="">
                            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                <div class="">On Nov 9, 2014, at 6:05
                                  AM, Tapani Tarvainen <<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:ncuc@TAPANI.TARVAINEN.INFO"
                                    target="_blank" class="">ncuc@TAPANI.TARVAINEN.INFO</a>>
                                  wrote:</div>
                                <br class="">
                                <div class=""><span class="">Go to </span><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="http://www.ncuc.org/"
                                    target="_blank" class="">http://www.ncuc.org</a><span
                                    class=""> and click "Participate"
                                    and under it</span><br class="">
                                  <span class="">"Mailing Lists", or go
                                    directly to </span><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="http://lists.ncuc.org/"
                                    target="_blank" class="">http://lists.ncuc.org/</a><span
                                    class="">.</span><br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <span class="">Almost all lists have
                                    public archives. The exception is
                                    Events,</span><br class="">
                                  <span class="">which sometimes handles
                                    at least semi-confidential stuff.</span></div>
                              </blockquote>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div class="">
                              <blockquote type="cite" class=""><br
                                  class="">
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                            <div class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="">
                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                <div class="">On Nov 9, 2014, at 9:35
                                  PM, Dan Krimm <<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:dan@musicunbound.com"
                                    target="_blank" class="">dan@musicunbound.com</a>>
                                  wrote:</div>
                                <br class="">
                                <div class=""><span class="">Great, so
                                    even someone like myself who's been
                                    around for a while (though</span><br
                                    class="">
                                  <span class="">admittedly with little
                                    time to participate substantively
                                    for several years)</span><br
                                    class="">
                                  <span class="">didn't know (or, and I
                                    don't browse the NCUC web site with
                                    any regularity.)</span><br class="">
                                  <span class="">Good to know these
                                    public archives exist!  ;-)</span><br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <span class="">That suggests a hybrid
                                    idea:</span><br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <span class="">(1) We should suggest
                                    that any new member who wants to
                                    understand the</span><br class="">
                                  <span class="">workings of the special
                                    committees make a habit of looking
                                    at these</span><br class="">
                                  <span class="">archives regularly.</span><br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <span class="">(2) For those new
                                    members who want to discuss
                                    "orientation" matters</span><br
                                    class="">
                                  <span class="">without cluttering up
                                    the main list, perhaps there is
                                    still room for</span><br class="">
                                  <span class="">something similar to
                                    Stephanie's idea.</span></div>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                            <div class=""><span class=""><br class="">
                              </span></div>
                          </span></div>
                      </span></div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br class="">
                _______________________________________________<br
                  class="">
                Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br class="">
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org" class="">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br
                  class="">
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss"
                  target="_blank" class="">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br
                  class="">
                <br class="">
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
      </div>
      <br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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