<div dir="ltr">I added mine too.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Amr Elsadr <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org" target="_blank">aelsadr@egyptig.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
I submitted my input, and it is now posted here: <a href="http://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-bylaws-amend-gac-advice-15aug14/" target="_blank">http://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-bylaws-amend-gac-advice-15aug14/</a><br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Amr<br>
<br>
On Aug 20, 2014, at 6:03 PM, Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@SYR.EDU">mueller@SYR.EDU</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Amr<br>
> This is a great comment, that you should send in to the comment site in the proposal.<br>
> It has street cred because you are involved in the Council and WGs.<br>
> --MM<br>
><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss-bounces@lists.ncuc.org">ncuc-discuss-bounces@lists.ncuc.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss-">ncuc-discuss-</a><br>
>> <a href="mailto:bounces@lists.ncuc.org">bounces@lists.ncuc.org</a>] On Behalf Of Amr Elsadr<br>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 9:36 AM<br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org">ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Increasing GAC influence?<br>
>><br>
>> Hi,<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks for posting the comment, Milton. Speaking for myself, I am in complete<br>
>> agreement with it.<br>
>><br>
>> GNSO Working Groups go through a pretty exhaustive process to come up with<br>
>> policy recommendations, send them to the GNSO Council to be approved and<br>
>> forwarded to the ICANN board. GAC members are more than welcome to<br>
>> participate on equal footing with other stakeholders in these WGs, they are<br>
>> more than welcome to provide feedback at multiple stages during the public<br>
>> comment periods of this process including the scoping of the policies being<br>
>> discussed (twice when staff publish issue reports and when a PDP charter<br>
>> drafting team comes up with a charter), provide input during the WG<br>
>> deliberations, and feedback on recommendations that have gained consensus by<br>
>> the WG members.<br>
>><br>
>> Undermining the GNSO's PDP by empowering a parallel policy development<br>
>> mechanism is a hazard to how gTLD policy is developed at ICANN. It's difficult<br>
>> enough to attract volunteers to participate in WGs. Increasing GAC influence on<br>
>> the outcome of this process will only demoralise participants further. This<br>
>> suggested amendment to the by-laws is also very conflicted with the efforts<br>
>> underway between the GNSO and the GAC to encourage early engagement in<br>
>> the GNSO process (as opposed to only resorting to GAC Advice).<br>
>><br>
>> I personally don't see the point in folks participating in WGs that sometimes take<br>
>> more than a year to reach consensus if this work will have to contend with GAC<br>
>> Advice when all is said and done.<br>
>><br>
>> I do, however, agree with Avri; that Geist exaggerates the danger. Still..., there is<br>
>> a danger.<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks.<br>
>><br>
>> Amr<br>
>><br>
>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 8:20 PM, Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>><br>
>>> You're right, Kathy.<br>
>>> Please NCSG members, don't be swayed by Avri's cynical mood.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hree is the public comment I wrote for this:<br>
>>><br>
>>> all stakeholders are equal...but some stakeholders are more equal than<br>
>>> others<br>
>>><br>
>>> It's impossible not to think of Orwell's famous phrase from Animal Farm when<br>
>> reading this proposal.<br>
>>><br>
>>> This bylaw change gives GAC precisely the wrong kinds of incentives. The ATRT<br>
>> recommendations (and virtually everyone else familiar with ICANN's process and<br>
>> aware of the dysfunctional relationship between GAC's shadow-policy making<br>
>> process and the real bottom up process) have been urging GAC to get more<br>
>> involved with and integrated into the policy development process. But this<br>
>> resolution pushes them in the opposite direction. It tells GAC that they don't<br>
>> have to consult or integrate their policy ideas with any other stakeholder<br>
>> groups. Their pronouncements will be given a special status regardless of how<br>
>> little make an effort to listen to and reach agreement with other groups. As this<br>
>> happens, other stakeholders will learn that the real place to influence policy is to<br>
>> lobby the GAC. The GNSO's policy development process in particular will<br>
>> atrophy.<br>
>>><br>
>>> By proposing this ill-advised change, ICANN is corroding multistakeholder<br>
>> governance at its very foundations. If this passes, ICANN can stop presenting<br>
>> itself as an alternative to Internet governance via governmental and inter-<br>
>> governmental processes. It will have privileged governments to such a degree<br>
>> that virtually any arbitrary, untimely, ill-considered pronouncement that makes<br>
>> its way through the GAC will take on the status of a global rule for the Internet's<br>
>> DNS unless 2/3 of ICANN's generally spineless board can be mobilized to stop it.<br>
>>><br>
>>> What we are seeing here is, as some of us predicted, the long-term<br>
>> transformation of GAC into an intergovernmental organization with control over<br>
>> the internet. The problem is that the GAC is _worse_ than ITU because it has<br>
>> none of the procedural safeguards and limitations on its authority (such as the<br>
>> right of a state not to ratify a treaty) that governments have.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Milton L Mueller<br>
>>> Laura J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor Syracuse University School<br>
>>> of Information Studies <a href="http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/" target="_blank">http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>>> From: <a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss-bounces@lists.ncuc.org">ncuc-discuss-bounces@lists.ncuc.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss-">ncuc-discuss-</a><br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:bounces@lists.ncuc.org">bounces@lists.ncuc.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman<br>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:24 AM<br>
>>>> To: <a href="mailto:ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org">ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NCUC-DISCUSS] Increasing GAC influence?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Hi All,<br>
>>>> I think it may make GAC much more powerful -- essentially a veto over the<br>
>>>> GNSO process (and the other supporting organizations as well).<br>
>>>> Michael Geist's article on this is good --<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2014/08/government-control-internet-" target="_blank">http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2014/08/government-control-internet-</a><br>
>>>> governance-icann-proposes-giving-gac-increased-power-board-decisions/<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I think we should think hard about opposing...<br>
>>>> Best,<br>
>>>> Kathy<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Hi,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> What it essentially does is put GAC on an equal footing with GNSO,<br>
>>>>> ccNSO and maybe ASO.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> avri<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On 18-Aug-14 22:50, William Drake wrote:<br>
>>>>>> Hi<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Well this is interesting. ICANN's proposing a bylaws change that<br>
>>>>>> would would require 2/3 of the voting members of the Board to vote to<br>
>>>>>> act inconsistently with a piece of GAC advice. Currently, the Bylaws<br>
>>>>>> require a simple majority of the Board.<br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://www.icann.org/public-comments/bylaws-amend-gac-advice-" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/public-comments/bylaws-amend-gac-advice-</a><br>
>>>> 2014-08<br>
>>>>>> -15-en<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>> The public comment forum is here<br>
>>>>>> <a href="http://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-bylaws-amend-gac-advice-" target="_blank">http://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-bylaws-amend-gac-advice-</a><br>
>>>> 15aug14<br>
>>>>>> /<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>> Might be good for people to weigh in, individually and/or collectively.<br>
>>>>>> Michael Geist offers an initial take on this,<br>
>>>>>> <a href="http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2014/08/government-control-internet-" target="_blank">http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2014/08/government-control-internet-</a><br>
>>>> govern<br>
>>>>>> ance-icann-proposes-giving-gac-increased-power-board-decisions/<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>> Bill _______________________________________________ Ncuc-<br>
>>>> discuss<br>
>>>>>> mailing list <a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
>>>>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJT8t7yAAoJEOo+L8tCe36HsQAIAKUTJpkPSbE+Kx+GEZ8Gw<br>
>>>> DW1<br>
>>>>> gBLChEgjBpK8ZKkyItm/DrBna1Ojfr/eRjjoxhHc2DThcRPBZ57drlADCEvSFfYK<br>
>>>>><br>
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>>>>><br>
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>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>> WBs4FY4DzW4JdjW3Znuy6Uj3zLoZegiZDHBI42mnOEcBC0ZiHU6gD351UfUaAp<br>
>>>> 4c<br>
>>>>><br>
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>>>> =<br>
>>>>> =vF1F<br>
>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br>
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>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br>
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>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>><br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr">
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