<div dir="ltr"><br><div>I'm not a lawyer and qualified to judge if it is illegal or not, are you ? If so, just sue the USG.</div><div><br></div><div>-J</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Marc Perkel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marc@churchofreality.org" target="_blank">marc@churchofreality.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
What the USG is doing is highly illegal. However because the
president and congress choose to ignore the constitution they can
get away with it. And we have no right to inflict ourselves on the
rest of the world.<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div>On 10/28/2013 10:18 AM, Jorge Amodio
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div>The NSA is a product of the USG, the officials of the USG
gave the NSA the mandate and funding to do what they have been
doing for ages, I hardly believe that ICANN is even close to
be the right organization to tackle that issue.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you are a US Citizen, call your Senators/Representatives
and express your opinion, and put pressure on the big pockets
that fund the lobbying apparatus in Washington DC so they
change the agenda accordingly.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Protocol Names and Numbers have NOTHING to do with the NSA,
so it is not in the scope of ICANN to fix ANYTHING related to
it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-J</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Marc
Perkel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marc@churchofreality.org" target="_blank">marc@churchofreality.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I think ICANN needs to increase its scope. I think ICANN
needs to become a UN alternative forum to fill a vacuum to
address issues like the NSA spying. If ICANN doesn't do it -
who will?<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/27/2013 11:01 PM, Dan Krimm wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
To the extent that Fadi is trying to address Internet
Governance generally<br>
(forgive me if I am reading too much into his actions?),
that would seem to<br>
be out of scope, regardless of whether ICANN/IANA and
general-IG both would<br>
benefit from internationalization.<br>
<br>
As for multistakeholderism, in principle this all sounds
great, but in<br>
practice it seems to have fallen far short of its intended
potential. In<br>
practice is where the rubber hits the road, and in
practice MSism at ICANN<br>
has recently fallen prey to ad hoc action when some "more
equal than<br>
others" stakeholders decide the outcome is not to their
liking. They<br>
apparently start to think along the lines of "God is not
Mocked."<br>
<br>
I see MSism as still an experimental work-in-progress,
hardly with all the<br>
bugs worked out, and not necessarily "ready for prime
time" in terms of<br>
overall world governance. The only reason it has worked
as free from<br>
collapse at ICANN as it has up to now, I think, is that
the big Powers That<br>
Be in the world (nations and big corporations) hadn't
really seen ICANN as<br>
all that meaningful in their general scheme of things.
The more important<br>
ICANN's actions become, the more the big powers will pound
on it to shape<br>
it to their desires. I think you've only seen the bare
beginning of this<br>
in the ad hoc shenanigans of the last few years. Just
beginning to rev up<br>
the engines. MSism has not reached up out of the play-pen
to play with the<br>
Big Boys yet, as far as I can tell, and it remains to be
seen how it will<br>
fare if it is brought up to the Big Time.<br>
<br>
That's a big risk, IMHO. Be careful what you ask for, you
might get it.<br>
And if it doesn't turn out how you expected, what then?
This whole MSism<br>
experiment is a huge exercise in unintended consequences
(in the gap<br>
between theory and practice), if you ask me. It's worth
doing the<br>
experiment, but I'd be more comfortable if the experiment
were closer to<br>
completion before trying it out on anything *really*
important. I don't<br>
see it anywhere near that point, yet.<br>
<br>
Dan<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the
author alone and do<br>
not necessarily reflect any position of the author's
employer.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 12:59 AM -0400 10/28/13, avri doria wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi,<br>
<br>
In terms of legitimacy, isn't one of the topics that
needs to be explored<br>
internationalisation of ICANN, and IANA? Isn't that a
topic at the top of<br>
the list? That seems to be in scope.<br>
<br>
And the ICANN Board seems to be on-board as Fadi was
meeting with a subset<br>
of them (including the Chair) and AC/SO leadership every
morning. I wasn't<br>
in the meetings, and don't know who the rep from gnso
was since Jonathan<br>
wasn't there, so don't know what the level of buy in
was, but I heard no<br>
complaints on the ground.<br>
<br>
So whatever we might say about scope creep Fadi is not
being renegade.<br>
<br>
As for scope creep Fadi and the leaders of the other I*
seem to be acting<br>
in coordinated faction, so it is within their scope, and
would seem to be<br>
in scope for any one of them to act on I*'s behalf in
organizational<br>
talks with governments on a meeting planning.<br>
<br>
So, in this case at least, I see no fundamental problem
of overreach by<br>
Fadi. And, whether he fully understand what it means,
he seems to be<br>
carrying the banner of multistakeholderism into these
discussions.<br>
<br>
So, at least this once, I am not ready to join in
Fadi-attack.<br>
<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
Sent from a T-Mobile 4G LTE Device<br>
<br>
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