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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Tx so much Alain, for your response,
      and your examples. It all seems to make sense when we see the
      examples...<br>
      <br>
      To those who asked about changing the rules, for many of us,
      barring Closed Generics *is not changing the rules,* but enforcing
      them.  <br>
      <br>
      I do too much work in the regulatory field to believe in
      regulation by surprise.  when I first saw the dozens and dozens of
      Closed Generics (it's really appalling), I went back to the words
      of the Applicant Guidebook, which includes the model Registry
      Agreement (the agreement all new gTLD registries will be asked to
      sign, and with limited exceptions, expected to sign).  <br>
      <br>
      The words clearly, clearly say that a Registry cannot own all of
      its domain names -- basically, a registry must operate as a
      traditional registry -- unless it asks for an exception. That's
      embedded in 2.9 of the Registry Agreement, and its Registry Code
      of Conduct (called Specification (or exhibit) 9). <br>
      <br>
      Best,<br>
      Kathy<br>
      :<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CANgs+StD4nJq=pRUZva+jGYB1m_M7UawLDqoC+DZkC4UfDS9CQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Hi, 
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I personnally lean heavily in favor of Kathy's position. It
        seems quite reasonable to me for IBM, Accenture, Suzuki or Aga
        Khan Foundation (AKDN for AK Development Network)  and many
        others to use their closed gTLD for internal purposes but pure
        generic words belong to everybody, period. So even
        AFAMILYCOMPANY applied for by Johnson Shareholdings Inc would
        affect not only the use of "family" by all but also discriminate
        against many others such as perhaps the millions of family-owned
        companies!</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Bill, I think the "Closed Generics" theme is big enough that
        it warrants an NCSG-wide approach in Bali with distinctive NCUC
        and NPOC events or sessions on different themes our respective
        Program Teams are probably working on right now.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Alain</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        <div><br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:10 AM,
            William Drake <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>></span>
            wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>So there's clearly a diversity of views on this
                  issue among reasonable people.  This was also evident
                  at the IGF meeting in Baku, where we spent some time
                  on it in the context of a wider discussion of new
                  gTLDs in the Critical Internet Resources main session
                  (I co-moderatated, Milton spoke to the issue, as did
                  Anriette Esterhuysen from NCUC member APC, the
                  Brazilian ambassador, others... <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://webcast.igf2012.com/ondemand"
                    target="_blank">http://webcast.igf2012.com/ondemand</a>/.)
                   </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>For this year's IGF in Bali, Alain and I discussed
                  the possibility of proposing a joint NPOC/NCUC Open
                  Forum session, and in addition the two constituencies
                  could each organize their own workshops reflecting
                  their respective priorities and possibilities.  In
                  this context, I'm wondering whether closed generics
                  might not be a good topic for a NCUC workshop.  We
                  could easily get a solid MS panel together with
                  strongly diverse views that would probably be of
                  interest to the sort of broader, non-GNSO-insider
                  audiences IGFs attract. I can already think of a
                  number of developing country government, business,
                  technical and CS folks who'd likely be eager to
                  participate as speakers, and it's a nicely bounded
                  problem set that'd lend itself to focused
                  consideration of commercial and noncommercial
                  arguments etc.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>After we get past the WSIS+10 and IGF meetings in
                  Paris I may pitch the Program Team a formal proposal
                  on this.  If anyone would like to conspire, let me
                  know.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Bill</div>
                <div>
                  <div class="h5">
                    <div>
                      <br>
                      <div>
                        <div>On Feb 10, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Kathy Kleiman
                          <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:Kathy@kathykleiman.com"
                            target="_blank">Kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>>
                          wrote:</div>
                        <br>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                            <div>Hi Edward and All,<br>
                              I've been meaning to write for some time
                              about Closed Generics.  Since 1996, I've
                              been fighting the abuse of generic words. 
                              The first huge domain name dispute battles
                              took place over generic words - that
                              trademark owners felt they could use their
                              trademarks (which is, of course, a limited
                              right to use a term for a specific
                              category of goods and services) to stop
                              ordinary people, organizations and
                              entrepreneurs from using ordinary words in
                              ordinary ways. We led a huge fight with
                              Network Solutions, and then at the dawn of
                              ICANN, to draft Domain Name Dispute Rules
                              that protected generic words used in
                              generic ways as part of the public domain
                              -- as belonging to us all!<br>
                              <br>
                              So when I see so many applicants for
                              "Closed Generic" New gTLDs -- using a
                              generic word in a generic way and
                              completely monopolizing it by *not*
                              allowing your competitors to use it too, I
                              am shocked: .APP, .BOOK, .CLOUD, .DRIVE,
                              .MAP, .MOVIE, .NEWS, .SEARCH, .SHOP.
                              .STORE, .BLOG, .ANTIVIRUS, .INSURANCE,
                              .HAIR, .MAKEUP, .BABY -- These are generic
                              words being used in generic ways
                              (according to their applications) for the
                              sole purpose of monopolizing the common
                              term of an industry or business -- and
                              keeping its competitors out. <br>
                              <br>
                              There is no way that L'Oréal could get
                              trademarks on .SKIN, .SALON, .MAKEUP and
                              .HAIR, as these words are part of the
                              public domain name and available to All
                              their competitors to use -- their
                              trademarks are on MAYBELLINE, REDKIN,
                              L'Oréal, and the share the generics as
                              common descriptive terms. So it is against
                              every public interest bone in my body to
                              allow generic words used in generic ways
                              to be monopolized by only one business or
                              industry player. <br>
                              <br>
                              But is it against the rules?  I went back
                              to my work as Director of Policy for .ORG,
                              as I was with .ORG through the end of the
                              Applicant Guidebook work. <span
style="line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
                                served on the Vertical Integration
                                Working Group in a very active way, as
                                well as the Registries group that
                                reviewed every line of the "Base
                                Registry Agreement" (the model contract
                                for all new gTLDs).  We had agreed that,
                                in general, the base model of a Registry
                                is "open" -- that Registries must work
                                with ICANN-Accredited Registrars
                                worldwide.  Why?  To reach Registrants
                                worldwide -- to offer them domain names
                                in their own languages, currencies and
                                customs.   <i>(For example, NII
                                  Quaynor, a founder of NCUC and early
                                  Board member, is now one of the few
                                  Registrars in Africa, and equal access
                                  of his Registrants to domain names, on
                                  a nondiscriminatory basis, has always
                                  been important to our system). </i></span>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              So no, I found that we had NOT agreed to
                              Closed Generics. In fact, the base model
                              of the New gTLD Registries was meant to be
                              "open" -- and ICANN incorporated this
                              "Open gTLD" model into its Base Registry
                              Agreement (in the Applicant Guidebook). 
                              Section 2.9a and the Registry Code of
                              Conduct. No Registry may favor a
                              particular Registrar -- but provide Equal
                              Access to its Registry Services and Data. 
                              Why?  To be fair to Registrants!  It's
                              nowhere written that Verisign can't limit
                              .COM domain names only to the NY Stock
                              Exchange companies, or that .ORG can't
                              limit .ORG registrations to only US
                              organizations, but everyone knows if they
                              did that, they would lose their
                              accreditation with ICANN.  <i>Non-discrimination

                                and Equal Access are part of our domain
                                name DNA.   </i>(See "Base Agreement
                              & Specifications", Specification 9, <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb"
                                target="_blank">http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb</a>). 
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              The initial Registry Code of Conduct had <u>no</u>
                              exceptions.  Then the Commercial Guys got
                              upset-- why should a Dot-Brand TLD, e.g.
                              .IBM, have to go through registrars to
                              register domain names, and why should they
                              have to register names to the public
                              anyway? (Arguments also made in the
                              Vertical Integration WG.)  Special
                              privileges for very limited use New TLDs -
                              let IBM keep its domain names for its
                              employees, franchisees, etc.  And frankly,
                              most of us agreed.  So the next version of
                              the Registry Code of Conduct came out with
                              a narrow exception:<br>
                              <br>
                                  ==> "6. Registry Operator may
                              request an exemption to this Code of
                              Conduct, and such exemption may be        
                                  granted by ICANN in ICANN’s reasonable
                              discretion, if Registry Operator
                              demonstrates to ICANN’s reasonable
                              satisfaction that (i) all domain name
                              registrations in the TLD are registered
                              to, and maintained by, Registry Operator
                              for its own exclusive use, (ii) Registry
                              Operator does not sell, distribute or
                              transfer control or use of any
                              registrations in the TLD to any third
                              party that is not an Affiliate of Registry
                              Operator, and (iii) application of this
                              Code of Conduct to the TLD is not
                              necessary to protect the public
                              interest."  <br>
                              <br>
                              It had a comment that made its intent very
                              clear:<br>
                                  ===> [*Note: This draft Section 6
                              of the Registry Operator Code of Conduct
                              has been added in response to comments
                              received that suggested that the Code was
                              not necessary for registries in which a
                              single registrant uses the TLD solely for
                              its own operations and does not sell
                              registrations to third parties (e.g. a
                              dot-BRAND)]
                              (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://archive.icann.org/en/topics/new-gtlds/draft-agreement-specs-redline-15apr11-en.pdf"
                                target="_blank">http://archive.icann.org/en/topics/new-gtlds/draft-agreement-specs-redline-15apr11-en.pdf</a><small>)<br>
                              </small><br>
                              And that's where we left it. Of course,
                              some people in the Vertical Integration WG
                              wanted much more, and some of them are on
                              this list. And some wanted much less- that
                              all gTLDs be open. The compromise was to
                              allow dot-BRANDs to be closed, but
                              certainly not any string any applicant
                              wanted for any reasons. Generic words used
                              in generic ways belong to everyone in the
                              industry or business :-).  <small><br>
                                <br>
                              </small>I look forward to our discussion,
                              and happy to provide links letters and
                              public comment forums.<br>
                              <small><br>
                              </small>All the best,<br>
                              Kathy<br>
                              p.s. Quick additional note on "restricted
                              TLDs."  In case anyone is wondering,
                              "restricted TLDs" are generally OK among
                              those deeply concerned about Closed
                              Generics because restricting .BANK to real
                              banks or .LAWYER to lawyers with actual
                              credentials seems consistent with
                              non-discrimination and equal access
                              provisions -- provided the criteria and
                              fairly and globally applied... <br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              Edward Morris wrote:<br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              :<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">Kathy,
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>I am sympathetic to your position. My
                                concern is that any change now to the
                                program will embroil ICANN in mass
                                litigation that will paralyze the
                                organization for a considerable period
                                going forward. We briefly spoke in Los
                                Angeles about some recent legal hires by
                                Amazon: some pretty impressive hires.
                                Can you convince me that my concerns are
                                invalid? Might not a better approach at
                                this point be to pressure the applicants
                                themselves to open up the generic
                                domains,  to make it socially
                                unacceptable for large companies to
                                operate closed Tlds?</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>Ed</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div><br>
                                <br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 6,
                                  2013 at 8:26 PM, Kathy Kleiman <span
                                    dir="ltr"><<a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com"
                                      target="_blank">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>></span>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0 0 0
                                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                    solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div text="#000000"
                                      bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                                      <div>Quote from Jeff Neuman (VP
                                        Neustar) in Amsterdam last week:<br>
                                        <i><b>Nearly all of those
                                            applying for Closed gTLDs
                                            would fail to qualify based
                                            on his reading of the Code
                                            of Conduct. </b></i><i><b><br>
                                          </b></i><br>
                                        Article show concern around the
                                        world for TLDs which are generic
                                        strings/words of an entire
                                        industry or business (DOCS,
                                        BOOK, SEARCH, ANTIVIRUS,
                                        WATCHES) being dominated and
                                        controlled by a single
                                        industry/business (and only one
                                        of many competitors).  that's
                                        being a registry to monoplize a
                                        word, not to offer registry
                                        services.<br>
                                        <br>
                                        -    The Hindu:  Beauty lies in
                                        the ‘domain’ of the highest
                                        bidder (Op-ed piece by Parminder
                                        Jeet Singh, Executive Director,
                                        IT for Change, in special
                                        consultative status with the
                                        United Nations Economic and
                                        Social Council (IGF attendee)),
                                        12/24/2012, <a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/beauty-lies-in-the-domain-of-the-highest-bidder/article3929612.ece"
                                          target="_blank">http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/beauty-lies-in-the-domain-of-the-highest-bidder/article3929612.ece</a> 
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                        -    Forbes: The Battle For The
                                        Cloud: Amazon Proposes 'Closed'
                                        Top-Level .CLOUD Domain,
                                        11/6/2012,   <a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/reuvencohen/2012/11/06/the-battle-for-the-cloud-amazon-proposes-closed-top-level-cloud-domain/?partner=yahootix"
                                          target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/sites/reuvencohen/2012/11/06/the-battle-for-the-cloud-amazon-proposes-closed-top-level-cloud-domain/?partner=yahootix</a>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                        -    Techworld: Problems arise
                                        where one entity is seeking
                                        exclusive use of strings with
                                        broad applicability, 11/21/2012,
                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://news.techworld.com/networking/3412616/icann-issues-early-warnings-over-controversial-top-level-domains/"
                                          target="_blank">http://news.techworld.com/networking/3412616/icann-issues-early-warnings-over-controversial-top-level-domains/</a><br>
                                        <br>
                                        I am deeply, deeply concerned! <br>
                                        Best,<br>
                                        Kathy<br>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                        <pre>A quote from Karen Lentz (ICANN legal staff): "Under the current rules, there's nothing that would prevent the use of closed generics, which is focused on the issue of who can register a name."

</pre>
                                        <blockquote type="cite">
                                          <pre>-----Original Message-----
From: NCSG-Discuss [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>] On Behalf
Of William Drake
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:18 PM
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>
Subject: [NCSG-Discuss] new-gtld-committee-not-sure-how-to-handle-
closed-generic-applications

surprise!

<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.thedomains.com/2013/02/05/icann-new-gtld-committee-not" target="_blank">http://www.thedomains.com/2013/02/05/icann-new-gtld-committee-not</a>-
sure-how-to-handle-closed-generic-applications/
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          <br>
          <br clear="all">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          -- <br>
          Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
          <div>Member, Board of Directors, CECI, <a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/"
              target="_blank">http://www.ceci.ca</a><br>
            <div>Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="http://www.schulich.yorku.ca" target="_blank">www.schulich.yorku.ca</a></div>
            <div>Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation, <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="http://www.gkpfoundation.org" target="_blank">www.gkpfoundation.org</a></div>
            <div>NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, <font
                color="#0a246a" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://www.chasquinet.org" target="_blank">www.chasquinet.org</a></font><br>
              Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="http://npoc.org/" target="_blank">http://npoc.org/</a><br>
              O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824<br>
              Skype: alain.berranger<br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ</div>
            <div>Ce courriel est confidentiel et est à l’usage exclusif
              du destinataire ci-dessus. Toute personne qui lit le
              présent message sans en être le destinataire, ou
              l’employé(e) ou la personne responsable de le remettre au
              destinataire, est par les présentes avisée qu’il lui est
              strictement interdit de le diffuser, de le distribuer, de
              le modifier ou de le reproduire, en tout ou en partie . Si
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              a été communiqué par erreur, veuillez nous en informer sur
              le champ  et détruire ce courriel et toute copie de
              celui-ci. Merci de votre coopération.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>CONFIDENTIALITY MESSAGE</div>
            <div>This e-mail message is confidential and is intended for
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          <div><br>
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    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 


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