Hi, <div><br></div><div>I personnally lean heavily in favor of Kathy's position. It seems quite reasonable to me for IBM, Accenture, Suzuki or Aga Khan Foundation (AKDN for AK Development Network) and many others to use their closed gTLD for internal purposes but pure generic words belong to everybody, period. So even AFAMILYCOMPANY applied for by Johnson Shareholdings Inc would affect not only the use of "family" by all but also discriminate against many others such as perhaps the millions of family-owned companies!</div>
<div><br></div><div>Bill, I think the "Closed Generics" theme is big enough that it warrants an NCSG-wide approach in Bali with distinctive NCUC and NPOC events or sessions on different themes our respective Program Teams are probably working on right now.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Alain</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:10 AM, William Drake <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi<div><br></div><div>So there's clearly a diversity of views on this issue among reasonable people. This was also evident at the IGF meeting in Baku, where we spent some time on it in the context of a wider discussion of new gTLDs in the Critical Internet Resources main session (I co-moderatated, Milton spoke to the issue, as did Anriette Esterhuysen from NCUC member APC, the Brazilian ambassador, others... <a href="http://webcast.igf2012.com/ondemand" target="_blank">http://webcast.igf2012.com/ondemand</a>/.) </div>
<div><br></div><div>For this year's IGF in Bali, Alain and I discussed the possibility of proposing a joint NPOC/NCUC Open Forum session, and in addition the two constituencies could each organize their own workshops reflecting their respective priorities and possibilities. In this context, I'm wondering whether closed generics might not be a good topic for a NCUC workshop. We could easily get a solid MS panel together with strongly diverse views that would probably be of interest to the sort of broader, non-GNSO-insider audiences IGFs attract. I can already think of a number of developing country government, business, technical and CS folks who'd likely be eager to participate as speakers, and it's a nicely bounded problem set that'd lend itself to focused consideration of commercial and noncommercial arguments etc.</div>
<div><br></div><div>After we get past the WSIS+10 and IGF meetings in Paris I may pitch the Program Team a formal proposal on this. If anyone would like to conspire, let me know.</div><div><br></div><div>Bill</div><div><div class="h5">
<div>
<br><div><div>On Feb 10, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Kathy Kleiman <<a href="mailto:Kathy@kathykleiman.com" target="_blank">Kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Hi Edward and All,<br>
I've been meaning to write for some time about Closed Generics.
Since 1996, I've been fighting the abuse of generic words. The
first huge domain name dispute battles took place over generic
words - that trademark owners felt they could use their trademarks
(which is, of course, a limited right to use a term for a specific
category of goods and services) to stop ordinary people,
organizations and entrepreneurs from using ordinary words in
ordinary ways. We led a huge fight with Network Solutions, and
then at the dawn of ICANN, to draft Domain Name Dispute Rules that
protected generic words used in generic ways as part of the public
domain -- as belonging to us all!<br>
<br>
So when I see so many applicants for "Closed Generic" New gTLDs --
using a generic word in a generic way and completely monopolizing
it by *not* allowing your competitors to use it too, I am shocked:
.APP, .BOOK, .CLOUD, .DRIVE, .MAP, .MOVIE, .NEWS, .SEARCH, .SHOP.
.STORE, .BLOG, .ANTIVIRUS, .INSURANCE, .HAIR, .MAKEUP, .BABY --
These are generic words being used in generic ways (according to
their applications) for the sole purpose of monopolizing the
common term of an industry or business -- and keeping its
competitors out. <br>
<br>
There is no way that L'Oréal could get trademarks on .SKIN,
.SALON, .MAKEUP and .HAIR, as these words are part of the public
domain name and available to All their competitors to use -- their
trademarks are on MAYBELLINE, REDKIN, L'Oréal, and the share the
generics as common descriptive terms. So it is against every
public interest bone in my body to allow generic words used in
generic ways to be monopolized by only one business or industry
player. <br>
<br>
But is it against the rules? I went back to my work as Director
of Policy for .ORG, as I was with .ORG through the end of the
Applicant Guidebook work. <span style="line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
served on the Vertical Integration Working Group in a very
active way, as well
as the Registries group that reviewed every line of the "Base
Registry
Agreement" (the model contract for all new gTLDs). We had
agreed that,
in general, the base model of a Registry is "open" -- that
Registries must work with ICANN-Accredited Registrars
worldwide.
Why? To reach Registrants worldwide -- to offer them domain
names in
their own languages, currencies and customs. <i>(For example,
NII Quaynor, a founder of NCUC and early Board member, is now
one of the few Registrars in Africa, and equal access of his
Registrants to domain names, on a nondiscriminatory basis, has
always been important to our system). </i></span><i></i> <br>
<br>
So no, I found that we had NOT agreed to Closed Generics. In fact,
the base model of the New gTLD Registries was meant to be "open"
-- and ICANN incorporated this "Open gTLD" model into its Base
Registry Agreement (in the Applicant Guidebook). Section 2.9a and
the Registry Code of Conduct. No Registry may favor a particular
Registrar -- but provide Equal Access to its Registry Services and
Data. Why? To be fair to Registrants! It's nowhere written that
Verisign can't limit .COM domain names only to the NY Stock
Exchange companies, or that .ORG can't limit .ORG registrations to
only US organizations, but everyone knows if they did that, they
would lose their accreditation with ICANN. <i>Non-discrimination
and Equal Access are part of our domain name DNA. </i>(See
"Base Agreement & Specifications", Specification 9,
<a href="http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb" target="_blank">http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb</a>). <br>
<br>
The initial Registry Code of Conduct had <u>no</u> exceptions.
Then the Commercial Guys got upset-- why should a Dot-Brand TLD,
e.g. .IBM, have to go through registrars to register domain names,
and why should they have to register names to the public anyway?
(Arguments also made in the Vertical Integration WG.) Special
privileges for very limited use New TLDs - let IBM keep its domain
names for its employees, franchisees, etc. And frankly, most of
us agreed. So the next version of the Registry Code of Conduct
came out with a narrow exception:<br>
<br>
==> "6. Registry Operator may request an exemption to this
Code of Conduct, and such exemption may be granted by
ICANN in ICANN’s reasonable discretion, if Registry Operator
demonstrates to ICANN’s reasonable satisfaction that (i) all
domain name registrations in the TLD are registered to, and
maintained by, Registry Operator for its own exclusive use, (ii)
Registry Operator does not sell, distribute or transfer control or
use of any registrations in the TLD to any third party that is not
an Affiliate of Registry Operator, and (iii) application of this
Code of Conduct to the TLD is not necessary to protect the public
interest." <br>
<br>
It had a comment that made its intent very clear:<br>
===> [*Note: This draft Section 6 of the Registry Operator
Code of Conduct has been added in response to comments received
that suggested that the Code was not necessary for registries in
which a single registrant uses the TLD solely for its own
operations and does not sell registrations to third parties (e.g.
a dot-BRAND)]
(<a href="http://archive.icann.org/en/topics/new-gtlds/draft-agreement-specs-redline-15apr11-en.pdf" target="_blank">http://archive.icann.org/en/topics/new-gtlds/draft-agreement-specs-redline-15apr11-en.pdf</a><small>)<br>
</small><br>
And that's where we left it. Of course, some people in the
Vertical Integration WG wanted much more, and some of them are on
this list. And some wanted much less- that all gTLDs be open. The
compromise was to allow dot-BRANDs to be closed, but certainly not
any string any applicant wanted for any reasons. Generic words
used in generic ways belong to everyone in the industry or
business :-). <small><br>
<br>
</small>I look forward to our discussion, and happy to provide
links letters and public comment forums.<br>
<small><br>
</small>All the best,<br>
Kathy<br>
p.s. Quick additional note on "restricted TLDs." In case anyone
is wondering, "restricted TLDs" are generally OK among those
deeply concerned about Closed Generics because restricting .BANK
to real banks or .LAWYER to lawyers with actual credentials seems
consistent with non-discrimination and equal access provisions --
provided the criteria and fairly and globally applied... <br>
<small></small><br>
<br>
Edward Morris wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Kathy,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am sympathetic to your position. My concern is that any
change now to the program will embroil ICANN in mass litigation
that will paralyze the organization for a considerable period
going forward. We briefly spoke in Los Angeles about some recent
legal hires by Amazon: some pretty impressive hires. Can you
convince me that my concerns are invalid? Might not a better
approach at this point be to pressure the applicants themselves
to open up the generic domains, to make it socially
unacceptable for large companies to operate closed Tlds?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ed</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Kathy
Kleiman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" target="_blank">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Quote from Jeff Neuman (VP Neustar) in Amsterdam last
week:<br>
<i><b>Nearly all of those applying for Closed gTLDs
would fail to qualify based on his reading of the
Code of Conduct. </b></i><i><b><br>
</b></i><br>
Article show concern around the world for TLDs which are
generic strings/words of an entire industry or business
(DOCS, BOOK, SEARCH, ANTIVIRUS, WATCHES) being dominated
and controlled by a single industry/business (and only
one of many competitors). that's being a registry to
monoplize a word, not to offer registry services.<br>
<br>
- The Hindu: Beauty lies in the ‘domain’ of the
highest bidder (Op-ed piece by Parminder Jeet Singh,
Executive Director, IT for Change, in special
consultative status with the United Nations Economic and
Social Council (IGF attendee)), 12/24/2012, <a href="http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/beauty-lies-in-the-domain-of-the-highest-bidder/article3929612.ece" target="_blank">http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/beauty-lies-in-the-domain-of-the-highest-bidder/article3929612.ece</a>
<br>
<br>
- Forbes: The Battle For The Cloud: Amazon Proposes
'Closed' Top-Level .CLOUD Domain, 11/6/2012, <a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/reuvencohen/2012/11/06/the-battle-for-the-cloud-amazon-proposes-closed-top-level-cloud-domain/?partner=yahootix" target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/sites/reuvencohen/2012/11/06/the-battle-for-the-cloud-amazon-proposes-closed-top-level-cloud-domain/?partner=yahootix</a>
<br>
<br>
- Techworld: Problems arise where one entity is
seeking exclusive use of strings with broad
applicability, 11/21/2012,
<a href="http://news.techworld.com/networking/3412616/icann-issues-early-warnings-over-controversial-top-level-domains/" target="_blank">http://news.techworld.com/networking/3412616/icann-issues-early-warnings-over-controversial-top-level-domains/</a><br>
<br>
I am deeply, deeply concerned! <br>
Best,<br>
Kathy<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>A quote from Karen Lentz (ICANN legal staff): "Under the current rules, there's nothing that would prevent the use of closed generics, which is focused on the issue of who can register a name."
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>-----Original Message-----
From: NCSG-Discuss [<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>] On Behalf
Of William Drake
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:18 PM
To: <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>
Subject: [NCSG-Discuss] new-gtld-committee-not-sure-how-to-handle-
closed-generic-applications
surprise!
<a href="http://www.thedomains.com/2013/02/05/icann-new-gtld-committee-not" target="_blank">http://www.thedomains.com/2013/02/05/icann-new-gtld-committee-not</a>-
sure-how-to-handle-closed-generic-applications/
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA<div>Member, Board of Directors, CECI, <a href="http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/" target="_blank">http://www.ceci.ca</a><br>
<div>Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, <a href="http://www.schulich.yorku.ca" target="_blank">www.schulich.yorku.ca</a></div><div>Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation, <a href="http://www.gkpfoundation.org" target="_blank">www.gkpfoundation.org</a></div>
<div>NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, <font color="#0a246a" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><a href="http://www.chasquinet.org" target="_blank">www.chasquinet.org</a></font><br>Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, <a href="http://npoc.org/" target="_blank">http://npoc.org/</a><br>
O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824<br>Skype: alain.berranger<br></div></div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div>AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ</div><div>Ce courriel est confidentiel et est à l’usage exclusif du destinataire ci-dessus. Toute personne qui lit le présent message sans en être le destinataire, ou l’employé(e) ou la personne responsable de le remettre au destinataire, est par les présentes avisée qu’il lui est strictement interdit de le diffuser, de le distribuer, de le modifier ou de le reproduire, en tout ou en partie . Si le destinataire ne peut être joint ou si ce document vous a été communiqué par erreur, veuillez nous en informer sur le champ et détruire ce courriel et toute copie de celui-ci. Merci de votre coopération.</div>
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