<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks to all.  Glad to see the
      response.  You have my support.<br>
      <br>
      Lou<br>
      <br>
      On 1/14/2013 1:33 PM, Robin Gross wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4B265B9B-8846-400B-ACB5-C1238EF30B10@ipjustice.org"
      type="cite">
      Thanks, Amr.  FYI: It is the NCSG Policy Committee, which decides
      to endorse statements on behalf of NCSG.  It would be great if the
      NCSG-PC could agree to endorse this statement before the deadline
      (or suggest any changes to it).
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Thanks again!</div>
      <div>Robin</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        <div>
          <div>On Jan 14, 2013, at 9:24 AM, Amr Elsadr wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div>Thanks Kathy and Roy. If there are any more comments
              that members would like included, please post them today.
              The next Thick Whois WG call is scheduled for tomorrow at
              15:00 UTC (right before the NCSG Policy meeting). We will
              need to submit our response to the WG prior to this call.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>It would also be great if NPOC could endorse the
              response, making it a response by NCSG instead of NCUC. As
              far as I know, NPOC has not submitted anything so far.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Thanks.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Amr</div>
            <br>
            <div>
              <div>On Jan 14, 2013, at 7:15 PM, Balleste, Roy wrote:</div>
              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
                  style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
                  'Trebuchet MS'; font-style: normal; font-variant:
                  normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                  line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align:
                  -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                  white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
                  -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
                  -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
                  -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
                  -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; ">
                  <div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple"
                    lang="EN-US">
                    <div class="Section1" style="page: Section1; ">
                      <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                        0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                        font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                        black; margin-top: 0in; "><span
                          style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                          sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hello!<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                      <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                        0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                        font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                        black; margin-top: 0in; "><span
                          style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                          sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
                      <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                        0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                        font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                        black; margin-top: 0in; "><span
                          style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                          sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Kathy
                          was kind enough to unify all responses so far,
                          I have (with her consent) unified mine with
                          all others.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                      <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                        0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                        font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                        black; margin-top: 0in; "><span
                          style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                          sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Please
                          find attached.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                      <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                        0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                        font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                        black; margin-top: 0in; "><span
                          style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                          sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
                      <div>
                        <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                          0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                          font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                          black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                              style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                              Corbel, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                              125); ">Roy Balleste, J.S.D.<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
                        <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                          0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                          font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                          black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                              style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                              Corbel, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                              125); ">Professor of Law<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
                        <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                          0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                          font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                          black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                              style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                              Corbel, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                              125); ">Law Library Director<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
                        <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                          0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                          font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                          black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                              style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                              Corbel, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                              125); ">St. Thomas University<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
                        <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                          0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                          font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                          black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                              style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                              Corbel, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                              125); ">16401 NW 37th Avenue<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
                        <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                          0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                          font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                          black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                              style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                              Corbel, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                              125); ">Miami Gardens, FL 33054  USA<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
                        <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                          0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                          font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                          black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                              style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                              Corbel, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                              125); ">1-305-623-2341<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                        0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                        font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                        black; margin-top: 0in; "><span
                          style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
                          sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
                      <div>
                        <div style="border-right-style: none;
                          border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style:
                          none; border-width: initial; border-color:
                          initial; border-top-style: solid;
                          border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
                          border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt;
                          padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in;
                          padding-left: 0in; ">
                          <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                            0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                            font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;
                            color: black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                                style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                                Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">From:</span></b><span
                              style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                              Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span
                                class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NCSG-Discuss
                              [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]<span
                                class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
                                Behalf Of<span
                                  class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Kathy
                              Kleiman<br>
                              <b>Sent:</b><span
                                class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday,
                              January 13, 2013 10:05 PM<br>
                              <b>To:</b><span
                                class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b><span
                                class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[NCSG-Discuss]
                              Thick Whois WG Comments - with some
                              proposed edits<o:p></o:p></span></div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                        0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                        font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                        black; margin-top: 0in; "><o:p> </o:p></div>
                      <blockquote style="margin-left: 0in; margin-top:
                        5pt; margin-right: 84.95pt; ">
                        <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                          0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                          font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                          black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                              style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                              Arial, sans-serif; ">Hi All,</span></b><o:p></o:p></div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                        0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                        font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                        black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                            style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,
                            sans-serif; ">Great thanks to Amr for the
                            first draft of comments to the Thick Whois
                            PDP Working Group. As you know, the question
                            on the table is whether a “thick Whois
                            model” – one in which all Whois data is held
                            and made available by the Registry (e.g.,
                            Verisign) and not the Registrar – should be
                            the model for all existing and all new
                            gTLDs.</span></b><o:p></o:p></div>
                      <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                        0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                        font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                        black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                            style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,
                            sans-serif; ">For .COM, it's a huge issue.
                            It is a “thin” registry, and 100 million+
                            Whois records are stored by the registrar
                            pursuant to local laws (including local
                            privacy and free speech laws). Whether we
                            can convert these 100 million+ records to a
                            single database – and whether we want to –
                            are questions for this group.</span></b><o:p></o:p></div>
                      <blockquote style="margin-left: 0in; margin-top:
                        5pt; margin-right: 84.95pt; ">
                        <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                          0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                          font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                          black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                              style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                              Arial, sans-serif; ">Further, the issue of
                              “Whois” data, service and protocol are all
                              up in the air. If someday we reach
                              agreement that this very personal data –
                              that can expose individuals and
                              organizations to threat for what they say
                              and share online (including political,
                              religious and ethnic minority views and
                              dissent, including non-commercial
                              activity) – should be private, then a
                              single centralized Registry Whois database
                              creates a single point of access. That
                              means that should Registries be cozy with
                              their local governments, all of this data
                              may be relinquished without due process,
                              or even subject to criminal laws that are
                              non-standard in the world (e.g., Syria,
                              N.Korea, China).</span></b><o:p></o:p></div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <blockquote style="margin-left: 0in; margin-top:
                        5pt; margin-right: 84.95pt; ">
                        <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                          0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                          font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                          black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                              style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                              Arial, sans-serif; ">The fact is that
                              registrants know their registrars and it
                              is to their registrars that the Whois
                              information is provided. Most registrants
                              will think they are protected under those
                              rules. Despite the fact that New gTLDs
                              (for this round, at least) require a
                              centralized Whois – with the Registry – I
                              remain deeply concerned about the
                              consolidation of the massive .COM Whois
                              (if it's even legal – see below) and the
                              standard set for all future registries and
                              TLDs – regardless of their political,
                              social, or religious uses.</span></b><o:p></o:p></div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom:
                        0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt;
                        font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color:
                        black; margin-top: 0in; "><b><span
                            style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,
                            sans-serif; "><br>
                            If NPOC shares these concerns, I urge you to
                            sign on – with thanks!<br>
                            <br>
                            Best,  Kathy Kleiman (veteran of far too
                            many Whois task forces and review teams...)<br>
                            p.s. All of Amr's comments kept, and I added
                            on and filled in some sections...</span></b><o:p></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <span><Edits to Thick Whois PDP WG Initial
                      Comments.2.doc></span></div>
                </span></blockquote>
            </div>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
            separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
            font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
            font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
            normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px;
            text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
            word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
            -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
            -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
            -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
            0; ">
            <div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <br class="khtml-block-placeholder">
            </div>
            <div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder">
            </div>
            <div>IP JUSTICE</div>
            <div>Robin Gross, Executive Director</div>
            <div>1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA  94117  USA</div>
            <div>p: +1-415-553-6261    f: +1-415-462-6451</div>
            <div>w: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="http://www.ipjustice.org">http://www.ipjustice.org</a> 
                 e: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a></div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          </span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>