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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">+1<br>
<br>
In the very early stages of Internet access in Cambodia - operated
by us, an NGO - we even provided for some time a public access
point (no coffee!), non commercial, to introduce what this whole
thing meant, and to offer initial services.<br>
<br>
But we promoted the idea which was then taken up by some people,
first in the capital city, then in some provincial towns: to
create Internet Cafes - and they became an income and employment
basis, commercially. <br>
<br>
I agree with Milton that Cybercafes are important entry points to
Internet access for many. But surely many have to struggle to
develop and maintain their business models. If bigger businesses
(in ICANN/GNSO) could cooperate closely with smaller businesses
(that is what many Cybercafes are) that would be an important step
into the right direction, I think, to strengthen their commercial
interests. To put them into a not-for-profit category would mean
to lead them to fail in their commercial business.<br>
<br>
<br>
Norbert Klein<br>
Open Institute<br>
Phnom Penh/Cambodia<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/12/2012 5:20 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D">Amr:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D">The issue here is not whether
CCAOI, the organization itself, is a nonprofit.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D">The point is that cybercafés, which
they purport to represent, are basically businesses.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D">I love cybercafé business, and
consider them to be on the front lines of developing
internet access in developing and some urban and rural areas
– but they are businesses. Cybercafes are internet service
providers. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D">I am sure we would have common
ground with them on a number of policy issues, but that
doesn’t change the fact that they belong in the CSG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D">Indeed, it would be fantastic if
they would join the Commercial Stakeholders Group, or even
the ISP constituency (which is what they really are),
because that part of the GNSO really needs to be broadened.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D">There is a problem with the
business and board people generally considering NCSG to be a
“dumping ground” for people who aren’t allowed to be
represented anywhere else. It is completely unfair for the
CSG to lock people like this out simply because they won’t
allow a new constituency to dilute their votes. It would be
all too convenient for the business interests to push all
the diversity into the NCSG and refuse to allow it
themselves. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D">The solution to this is not to
dilute and undermine NCSG by adding a bunch of ISP
businesses and calling them “noncommercial,” but to broaden
the CSG. Please help us in that agenda. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
NCSG-Discuss [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Amr Elsadr<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 11, 2012 4:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCSG-Discuss] Application For New
GNSO Constituency in The NCSG -- PIA-CC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm not sure I agree with labeling the
CCAOI as a for-profit entity. As per their application
documents, they describe themselves as:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"<span class="apple-style-span"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt">Though we, CCAOI, are an
association, the approach followed by us is that of an
NGO. Right from our membership to the services we
provide, all are free of charge. In fact, we play a
far more responsible role for building the cybercafé
ecosystem and are also responsible for the users,
majority of who fall in the age group of 15-35 years
as well as the VAS providers. India has over 80
million internet (email) users today, out of which
nearly 40% access internet through cybercafés. We also
have a forum for the users and our ultimate objective
is empowerment of the citizens through Digitization."</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, I am not very convinced with
their application, particularly in Section 3.0:
Uniqueness and Representational Focus. It seems to me
that they should have sought membership in an already
existing constituency within the NCSG rather than
creating a new one. IMHO, wether or not they should even
be granted membership is still debatable.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am curious and would like to learn
more about the nature of the relationship between the
CCAOI and the Department of Information Technology of
the Govt. of India, which is listed as one of its
national affiliates on the CCAIO website. I'm not
jumping to any conclusions, but it sounds very similar
to the IT clubs in youth centers in Egypt in terms of
services and objectives. The IT clubs are a government
program funded and operated by the Egyptian Ministry of
Communications and Information Technology that take
place at youth centers (amongst other facilities), which
officially belong to an NGO, however are also
more-or-less financially dependent on funding and
oversight by the government. The NCSG charter frankly
excludes governmental organizations and departments from
being members, but perhaps does not address this sort of
scenario as clearly as it should.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Amr<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Oct 11, 2012, at 7:23 AM, Marc
Perkel wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree - Non-Commercial means
non-commercial. So the for profit can go somewhere else.<br>
<br>
On 10/10/2012 8:42 PM, Andrew A. Adams wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">ICANN's Silo model indeed produces a
problem for this group. I think what<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">they really need to do is split
themselves for the purposes of ICANN formal<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">structures into two groups:
"non-profit Public Internet Access" and<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">"Cyber-cafes and other commercial
shared computer access providers", apply<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">for NCSG/CSG group membership but
agree amongst themselves that they will<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">coordinate strongly between them on
promoting the clear common interests such<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">a group has.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm afraid I could not support the
inclusion of for-profit access providers<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">in an NCSG constituency as it
violates the non-commercial principle of SG<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">membership.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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