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I disagree about the superiority of .book over .book<b>s</b> (and
the many other close modification such as .bookish, .oldbook,
.newbook, .goodbook, .readbooks, .buybooks, [brand]books, etc.,
etc.) .libram, ., .tales, .grimoire, .etc .<br>
<br>
"Google" became a household name, after all. I don't even think that
the one that has .book has an advantage over the one that has
.thatthingywithpagesnotsomuchfromthepast.<br>
<br>
In fact, i'd take my chance marketing the latter. <br>
<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/09/2012 1:17 PM, David Cake
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:4F47017D-DECD-4AC9-B860-5F9AEE5868F3@difference.com.au"
type="cite"><base href="x-msg://859/">I don't think it is a
trademark issue purely, nor do I think it is purely a free
expression issue.
<div>But from a public interest point of view, there are some
strings that we should consider carefully. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Amazon don't have a trademark on book - and we would never
let them have one. So why should we grant them any exclusive
rights on .book, to be used only for their own branded product?
And I disagree with Milton on this - the space is vast, yes, but
not all strings are equal, and there are no synonyms for book of
equal quality. </div>
<div>Yes, it isn't a monopoly, but it is a significant competitive
advantage that I don't think we should be selling exclusive
rights to.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Restricted registration (not the same as closed) may well be
in the public interest in some cases. I think the case for
restricting .bank to banks is reasonable, even if we use the
word bank for some other purposes (food bank, seed bank, etc).
And restricting .ngo to NGOs etc. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm OK with .brands having closed registration - the logic is
essentially the original, public interest, case for trademarks,
that it protects consumer interests to prevent attempts to claim
false association. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sure, there are business agendas at play here. And much as I
also am a member of the Michele Neylon fan club, I acknowledge
that he (as a registrar) has an interest in keeping as many of
them as open as possible. But I also think there are some cases
where I'd much rather see a registrant that intends open
registration succeed, and those where a closed use would imply
trying to 'capture' a generic, not trademarkable, term are
particularly problematic (ie .book, .app, .music, etc). Most of
which are contested, with at least some major bidders planning
on open (or restricted but not closed) registration. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 07/09/2012, at 12:40 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica;
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<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple"
lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; ">
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">Kathy<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">I don't agree with Michele's letter
and don't see that there are actually free
expression issues here. Although it is good that
you circulated this letter, to keep us informed,
we have already started a dialogue about this
issue in connection with the NCUC statement
regarding human rights issues in new gTLDs.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">As we all know, DNS strings must be
exclusively registered to someone. Whoever that
person/organization is should be able to determine
the level of "closedness" or "openness" of the
registrations under it. This is true at the top
level, second level, third level, whatever. Just
as free expression does not mean that the IGP
website (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://internetgovernance.org"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">internetgovernance.org</a>) has to allow
anyone and everyone to publish their opinion, or
register a domain at the third level under it, so
ownership of a TLD does not obligate anyone to
open its registrations. If they want to, fine. If
they don't, it's their right.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">The DNS space is vast. For any given
string, there are always more or less good
substitutes. Giving someone .cloud does not give
anyone a monopoly over cloud services, clouds in
the air, use of the word cloud in other contexts,
cloud-like brands, cloud images, or…cloudy
thinking. The idea that these closed business
models create a monopoly on anything is just
wrong. The idea that any generic term must be
"open" means something very inimical to free
expression: it means that ICANN would have to
dictate the business models and procedures of
whoever registered a given string. It would also
mean that ICANN would have to dictate what was a
generic word and what was not, because it is not
always obvious.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">Valuable domains will be created not
by the word or string itself, but by the
investment and value that go into its operation.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">I don’t see how we can say that end
users - and noncommercial users specifically - are
inherently better off if the entity that wins
.MUSIC allows open registration or creates a
controlled name space in which the second-level is
specific artists, or restricts it to internal
users, or some other business model. Either way
might please users, either way might not work out.
Take any word in any language of your choice:
let's say, CHOICE as an example. Can you really
contend that free expression is better served if
.CHOICE _<i>must</i>_ allow anyone and everyone to
register under it? What if it is acquired by
Planned Parenthood and they want to use it to
promote their own views, and thus limit how the
name space is used?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">You know as well as I do, Kathy, that
generic terms have been and will continue to be
registered at the second level (<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://books.com"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">books.com</a>,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://cloud.com"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">cloud.com</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>etc.) In a
world where .com constituted over half of the
domain name space, those generic terms were
"closed" and probably more economically
significant than registering a new TLD in a world
of 1000 new TLDs will be.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">What is really going on here? I
believe that these so-called open v closed and
"free expression" concerns are just a cloak for
certain business interests to try to gain a leg up
on the competition for valuable names. Applicants
with business models oriented around large
numbers of individual registrations (e.g.,
registrars such as Mr. Neylon) are trying to use
the regulatory process ex post - re-write the
rules in mid-stream - to gain an advantage over
applicants with business models that involve more
controlled name spaces. I refuse to play along.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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<div style="border-right-style: none;
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<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
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font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; color: black; "><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NCSG-Discuss
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Kathy
Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday,
September 05, 2012 3:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[NCSG-Discuss]
Closed New gTLDs - "Closed Gardens"<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; color: black; ">Hi All,<br>
I would like to share with you a letter being
circulated by Michele Neylon, the wonderful
Blacknight registrar (and the only registrar in
Ireland). It deals with new gTLDs that are
"closed gardens" -- generic words that some
companies have applied for as new gTLDs and will
keep "closed" -- not open for general second-level
domain name registration. These include some
applicants for .BLOG and .CLOUD, among many
others.<br>
<br>
It's a powerful letter with strong free
speech/freedom of expression arguments. Concerns
are shared by registries, registrars and
registrants -- and Michele is looking for
Signatories.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
Please take a moment to look at the letter, and
let Michele know if you can sign on (name,
organization). Michele is cc'ed on this email,
and can be reached at<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:michele@blacknight.ie"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">michele@blacknight.ie</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
-----<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Here's the full version with current signatories :<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZUNlookOWyaSW8lXfi_37zVFsVk9xcxncvmE0uwPEFY/edit"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZUNlookOWyaSW8lXfi_37zVFsVk9xcxncvmE0uwPEFY/edit</a>Here
are two quotes from the<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></div>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family:
'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><br>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">Here
are two quotes from the letter:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 11.5pt; font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif; "><br>
"Based on our collective industry experience, we
are of the opinion that the underlying intention
of Section 6 was to allow for the operation of
closed gTLDs only under very defined
circumstances. </span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif; "><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt;
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">Specifically,
that closed gTLDs should be reserved for only
those strings in which the applicant possesses
established (i.e., legally recognized)
intellectual property rights, basically brand
names. We believe that this interpretation of
Section 6 is inherently logical especially in
view of the discussions that preceded the
opening of gTLDs -- which focused, in very large
part, on expanding choices and opportunities as
well as promoting innovation, for Internet
consumers worldwide."</span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; "><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt;
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">"Further,
generic words used in a generic way belong to
all people. It is inherently in the public
interest to allow access to generic new gTLDs to
the whole of the Internet Community, e.g.,
.BLOG, .MUSIC, .CLOUD. Allowing everyone to
register and use second level domain names of
these powerful, generic TLDs is exactly what we
envisioned the New gTLD Program would do. In
contrast, to allow individual Registry Operators
to segregate and close-off common words for
which they do not possess intellectual property
rights in effect allows them to circumvent
nation-states’ entrenched legal processes for
obtaining legitimate and recognized trademark
protections."</span><span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif; "><br>
</span>----<br>
Best,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Kathy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family:
'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">Kathy
Kleiman<br>
Internet Counsel, Fletcher, Heald & Hildreth<br>
Co-Founder, NCUC</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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