Thks Amr,<div><br></div><div>As an aside in your mail: I find the SG structure of Internet Masr quite sensible... One could easily imagine ICANN using such a logic in contemplating the evolution of the backbone of its SGs...</div>
<div><br></div><div>Alain<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 5:16 AM, Amr Elsadr <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org" target="_blank">aelsadr@egyptig.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi Bill,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">To be honest..., I’m not sure there is much that can be done in the NC/ICANN context unless there is a possible course of action I am not currently aware of. Talking to the Egyptian representative on the GAC wouldn’t do much good, because she is pretty much on the same page we are. I am trying to promote participation in ICANN amongst local Internet community members here in Egypt and hope there will be a few applicants to the Fellowship program for the Toronto meeting, which is now open. If any are accepted, I will also do what I can to get them to attend meetings with NCSG. I have personally learnt a great deal about the value of transparency and accountability in policy decision-making on this list and hope you folks will infect a few other of my countrymen and women as well.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In the meantime..., Internet Masr (Masr being the Arabic word for Egypt) is officially just a few weeks old right now. I am on the Board representing the Individual Internet Users SG (there are five SGs: Individual Users, Civil Society, Academia, Private Sector, and Government), and we have already worked on a draft document we are calling “The Principles for Use of the Internet in Egypt”. After some discussion, we have reached a draft that all of our members are satisfied with. I am working on translating this from Arabic into English and once that is done, we will post the document in both languages online and seek wider community feedback so that we can come up with a statement that is widely representative of the local Internet community, and will hopefully make legislators think twice about their positions on the topic. I will surely post the link to the draft on this list. Although I am doubtful, I hope we can do all this before the Egyptian parliament holds discussions with members of civil society next month in preparation for the writing of our new constitution in which the right of access to information will be one of the many issues.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Amr<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> NCSG-Discuss [mailto:<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Drake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 05, 2012 9:35 AM</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCSG-Discuss] 'Father of the Internet' warns Web freedom is under attack<u></u><u></u></div>
</div><p></p></div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Amr,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Just noticed in my box, sorry. I'm sure your concerns are shared here. Question is, what if anything would you like us to be doing in the NC/ICANN context? Ideas?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Bill<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On May 24, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Amr Elsadr wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi,</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Having spent most of my life in a country with a largely conservative society, I would like to share some thoughts on the issue of legislative action to combat moral decadence as a result of online exposure to Web content. A couple of months ago, an MP belonging to one of the ultra-conservative parties now holding a majority in the Egyptian parliament proposed a law to force local ISPs to block pornographic content in Egypt. Furthermore, the law (which our esteemed legislative branch of government has quickly voted in favour of with very little debate) goes on to allow the authorities to punish any ISPs that do not comply with the ban. Although the Egyptian Ministry of Communication and Information Technology (MCIT) and the National Telecom Regulatory Authority (NTRA) are both cooperating with this new legislation, it is a very unpopular law amongst the officials who understand the implications (particularly concerning cost-effectiveness).</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://thenextweb.com/me/2012/03/24/egyptian-government-reportedly-preparing-a-ban-on-internet-pornography/" target="_blank">http://thenextweb.com/me/2012/03/24/egyptian-government-reportedly-preparing-a-ban-on-internet-pornography/</a></span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Last month, at the annual national ICT conference, our newly ratified NGO on Internet policy and development arranged a panel discussion. We invited the MP who proposed the law and held a debate in which it was quite obvious that he has next to no understanding about Internet policy and what it entails. IMHO, this individual is merely a tool following orders passed down from his party for what many believe is just a lame attempt at gaining public support on a controversial issue. However, with a closer look at the dynamics of Egyptian politics, this legislation is probably no more than a stepping stone for the powers-that-be to control the flow of information to the Egyptian public via the Internet, which has been (to say the least) extremely problematic for the former(?) ruling regime. Does any of this sound familiar to anyone??</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Over the years, I have developed what I believe to be a healthy distrust of politicians and their motives. With all due respect to others on this list who share my background of living in conservative societies, there are solutions that do not necessitate banning of content, even illegal content, on a national scale; amongst which is one that currently exists in Egypt to allow parents to locally block porn sites to their personal computers at home without treading on the “slippery slope” of compromises freedom of expression on a nation-wide scale. At least here in Egypt, this is a well-known fact conveniently ignored by legislators with ulterior motives.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Amr</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-width:initial;border-color:initial"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">NCSG-Discuss [<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]<span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>rusdiah<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:43 AM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span><a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [NCSG-Discuss] ‘Father of the Internet’ warns Web freedom is under attack</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style>dear all:<br>some government control... for political issue... some for industry issue.... some for security/defence issue.. but in Indonesia somehow on ethical and pornography issues :-)<br>
<br>sometimes we forget because of the scale and power of Internet that actually internet supposed to be the tools... to deliver th contents... or is it the ends.. ?<br>regards, rudi rusdiah - apwkomitel - indonesia<br>On 05/24/2012 09:03 AM, Kadian Davis wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style>Increasingly Governments are moving towards control of Internet Freedom. Freedom of expression, although debatable, is a fundamental right and is often the center piece of a democracy. However, Governments are sometimes preoccupied with finding ways to protect national security and human rights pertaining to Internet usage. I believe that the mechanisms for enforcement of copyright laws or illegal content laws through DNS filtering is disproportionate and is too restrictive. In total, DNS filtering undermines security on the Internet and may block legitimate content from the Internet. Therefore, this negatively impacts freedom of expression.<span> </span><br>
<br>It is important to note that the blocking of domain names does not actually remove illegal content off the Internet. As a result, there is need for various human right agencies within the government, private sector, academia and civil society to negotiate the terms and conditions for Internet Regulation. However, I believe that these agencies should have a basic understanding of the Internet before negotiating Internet regulation. Moreover, Governments need to realize that harsh regulations of the Internet may impede innovation through various ICT tools.<br>
<br>Recently we have seen a few examples pertaining to Internet Freedom see below:<br><br> "Iran's telecommunications ministry has barred local banks, insurance<br> firms and telephone operators from using foreign-sourced emails to<br>
communicate with clients, a specialist weekly said on Saturday. "The<br> telecommunications minister has ordered the use of domain names ending<br> with .ir" belonging to Iran, Asr Ertebatat reported." See<span> </span><a href="http://j.mp/KDVUWK" target="_blank">http://j.mp/KDVUWK</a><span> </span><br>
<br>In addition, we see that India is pushing for the creation of a forum called ‘Committee for Internet Related Policies' (CIRP) to develop internet policies, oversee all internet standards bodies and policy organizations, negotiate internet-related treaties and sit in judgment when internet-related disputes come up. The catch is that India's formal proposal is for CIRP to be funded by the U.N., run by staff from the U.N.'s Conference on Trade and Development arm and report directly to the U.N. General Assembly, which means it will be entirely controlled by the U.N.'s member states. See<span> </span><a href="http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article3423018.ece" target="_blank">http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article3423018.ece</a><br>
<br>We can effect change let us bring these issues to the fore at the various (ICANN, IGF, WSIS, IETF etc) Internet Governance meetings.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Kadian Davis.<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style>On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 8:10 PM, rusdiah <<a href="mailto:rusdiah@rad.net.id" target="_blank">rusdiah@rad.net.id</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style>it is not easy talk about freedom, safety, neutrality, cybercrime, IP pirate, CISPA...with different interest... personal interest, national interest... business interest of the stakeholders ...<br>
<br>anything that are not following somebody interest will be bad and sometimes considered as a crime ... cybercrime...<span> </span><br><br>"either you with me or against me....."<span> </span><br><br>this is the challenge for the future global dialog, not as easy during the period of cerf when he started the Internet everybody has one goal... ... regards, rudi rusdiah - apwkomitel (association of internet community - indonesia)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style><br><br><br><br><br><u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style><a href="http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/228561-father-of-the-internet-warns-web-freedom-is-under-attack" target="_blank">http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/228561-father-of-the-internet-warns-web-freedom-is-under-attack</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div align="center"><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="980" style="width:735.0pt;border-collapse:collapse;border-style:initial;border-color:initial">
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<div><h1 style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">‘Father of the Internet’ warns Web freedom is under attack</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></h1>
</div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#111169;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">By Andrew Feinberg<span> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">- </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#717171;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">05/21/12 11:07 AM ET</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><div style="margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:15.0pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">“Father of the Internet” Vint Cerf on Monday warned that Internet freedom is under threat from governments around the world, including the United States.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Cerf, a computer scientist who was instrumental in the Internet’s creation and is now employed by Google as its "Internet evangelist," said officials in the United States, United Kingdom and Europe are using intellectual property and cybersecurity issues "as an excuse for constraining what we can and can't do on the 'net.”</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style="margin-left:.75pt;margin-top:11.25pt;margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">"Political structures … are often scared by the possibility that the general public might figure out that they don't want them in power," he said.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div style="margin-left:.75pt;margin-top:11.25pt;margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">He sounded the alarm about the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), arguing the group is poised to assume the role of global Internet cop.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">“There is strong indication that the Internet will enter the picture [for the ITU]," Cerf said at the Freedom to Connect conference.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Cerf said the ITU is likely to try and lock in mandatory intellectual property protections as a backdoor for easy Web surveillance.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Even good-faith efforts at Internet policymaking should be viewed with skepticism, Cerf said, because balancing freedom and security "isn't something that government alone is going to figure out."</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">He criticized the Cybersecurity and Intelligence Protection Act (CISPA), legislation passed by the House to encourage companies to share information about cyber threats with the government, because it lacks "adequate constraints" on how the information is used.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">But Cerf said he has the "optimistic belief" that attempts by hostile governments to restrict access will be circumvented by resourceful engineers around the world. </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">"If someone stops me from communicating, I'll find a way around it," he said.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Cerf also urged vigilante groups such as Anonymous to stop using cyberattacks as a means of activism, saying the hackings are counterproductive.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">"I don't think lawlessness is our friend," he said.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Ultimately, there is a legitimate role for law enforcement on the Web, he said, adding that "it would be bad for us as a community to say … that all the good things outweigh the bad."</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">"That's not a credible position to take," he said.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Cerf said activists and regulators alike harm themselves by using terms like "cybercrime" because they suggest that "every bad thing that happens on the Internet is a crime."</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:.75pt;margin-bottom:11.25pt;margin-left:.75pt;border-style:initial;border-color:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">"Some are just bugs," Cerf said, while suggesting a better goal for policymakers should be "cybersafety."</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style>--<span> </span><br></span><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:#000099">Kadian Davis<br>
<br>"Mark the blameless man, and observe the upright; For the future of that man is peace" Psalm 37:37.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA<div>Member, Board of Directors, CECI, <a href="http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/" target="_blank">http://www.ceci.ca</a><br>
<div>Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, <a href="http://www.schulich.yorku.ca" target="_blank">www.schulich.yorku.ca</a></div><div>Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation, <a href="http://www.gkpfoundation.org" target="_blank">www.gkpfoundation.org</a></div>
<div>NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, <font color="#0a246a" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><a href="http://www.chasquinet.org" target="_blank">www.chasquinet.org</a></font><br>Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, <a href="http://npoc.org/" target="_blank">http://npoc.org/</a><br>
O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824<br>Skype: alain.berranger<br></div></div><br>
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