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I agree with you Kerry that it has to be brought up. I've long
thought that ICANN would be better off if it would dare populate the
"delicate" issue of its foundation with its own assertions.<br>
<br>
Its a recurring theme that threatens it and will continue to do so.
I also think that SGs like ours are ideally positions to nudge the
Board in this direction. The Board and NCSG are natural ally on this
issue. <br>
<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
On 2/22/2012 8:03 PM, Kerry Brown wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’ve
only been to a couple of ICANN meetings and mostly
participated in the ccNSO. I realize that the big picture
issues rarely get discussed but that is part of the problem.
These types of discussions must happen in public. A first
step to doing that is someone bringing up the big picture
issues in a public forum. Most likely nothing will come of
it when this happens. Most likely nothing will come of it
the next few times the same issue comes up. Once the door is
open though, people start thinking about it, eventually it
is OK to talk about it, and something gets done. I think
asking the question in a non-confrontational way and
accepting whatever answer we get is a good first step in
opening up this issue to be talked about elsewhere.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As
an aside I will be at the Costa Rica meeting and would like
to observe this particular meeting. I would like to get more
involved with ICANN beyond the ccNSO. Is the public allowed
to observe?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Kerry
Brown<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> NCSG-Discuss
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Mary.Wong@LAW.UNH.EDU">Mary.Wong@LAW.UNH.EDU</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> February-22-12 4:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCSG-Discuss] Fwd: Confirming
Meeting with the Board - Tuesday 13 March - 3:30pm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">It
will be interesting to see how Steve (Crocker) manages
these meetings. In the past, the Board has seemed
disinterested in discussing some of these "big picture"
(politically-charged?) issues, and has preferred more
focused discussions on substantive policy topics. They
have also tended to leave it to the SG to lead the
discussion, which means that it's not enough to simply
frame a question or issue; we'll need to have a short
description or list of bullet points we want to zoom in
on within that question or issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">For
this topic, I think the chance of having a decent to
good discussion will be enhanced if we are able to frame
the question appropriately, and give perhaps a paragraph
or short set of bullet points on specific sub-questions
members are interested in getting the Board's view on.
Even so, be prepared for a bunch of comments like "we're
not speaking on behalf of ICANN as this is not something
the Board has taken an official position on".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Mary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple">Mary
W S Wong</span></strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Professor
of Law</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Chair,
Graduate IP Programs</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Director,
Franklin Pierce Center for IP</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<address><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">UNIVERSITY
OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW<o:p></o:p></span></address>
<address><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Two
White Street<o:p></o:p></span></address>
<address><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Concord,
NH 03301<o:p></o:p></span></address>
<address><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">USA<o:p></o:p></span></address>
<address><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Email:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mary.wong@law.unh.edu">
mary.wong@law.unh.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></address>
<address><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Phone:
1-603-513-5143<o:p></o:p></span></address>
<address><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Webpage:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php">http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php</a><o:p></o:p></span></address>
<address><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Selected
writings available on the Social Science Research
Network (SSRN) at:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ssrn.com/author=437584">http://ssrn.com/author=437584</a><o:p></o:p></span></address>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">>>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:
</span></strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Kerry
Brown <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kerry@KDBSYSTEMS.COM">kerry@KDBSYSTEMS.COM</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">To:</span></strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@listserv.syr.edu">NCSG-DISCUSS@listserv.syr.edu</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Date:
</span></strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">2/22/2012
7:17 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
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<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Subject:
</span></strong><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Re:
[NCSG-Discuss] Fwd: Confirming Meeting
with the Board - Tuesday 13 March -
3:30pm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">That
might be a more politically correct way to ask
the question. I don’t know what the answer is or
should be. I just know that ICANN needs to start
talking about the subject instead of dancing
around it. If we ignore the perception that the
US controls the Internet someone else will use
that point to forcibly take control and ICANN
will have no input into how it is done. The
subject needs to see the light of day. It is not
going away no matter how much we wish it would.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Kerry
Brown<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> Nicolas Adam
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:[mailto:nickolas.adam@gmail.com]">[mailto:nickolas.adam@gmail.com]</a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> February-22-12 4:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kerry Brown<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCSG-Discuss] Fwd:
Confirming Meeting with the Board -
Tuesday 13 March - 3:30pm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">IMO, yes ICANN need to take
its distance from US jurisdiction. But an
inter-national jurisdiction is not a good idea.<br>
<br>
ICANN's legitimacy hinge on users (writ large,
commercial and non, contracted and non) and it
should definitely stress its non inter-national
foundations, as well as its non-international
plans for the future, early and often.<br>
<br>
Asking the inter-national question just
embarrass ICANN as an org, and it doesn't help
it strengthen its *global* foundation.
<br>
<br>
May be I would ask if there are plans to address
the perception that US has final jurisdiction
(implying it does not) in order to populate the
"authority/foundation by announcement" space in
a manner that is most conducive to ICANN's
perrenity (as beholden to all its
stakeholders/communities)?<br>
<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
On 2/22/2012 4:39 PM, Kerry Brown wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">One
question I’d like to see is: “Are there any
plans to make ICANN more of an international
organisation that is not beholden to or
restricted by the laws of any one country?”
Your proposed topic possibly hints at this.
Why not just come out and ask it so it is on
the table for discussion. I don’t really
expect we’d get a serious or full answer but
it would get the subject out there. If ICANN
doesn’t start planning to make a move toward
being a truly international organisation it
will happen in an unplanned, possibly very
destructive way whether we like it or not.
It’s something we all need to start talking
about.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Kerry
Brown</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> NCSG-Discuss [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robin Gross<br>
<b>Sent:</b> February-22-12 1:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NCSG-Discuss] Fwd:
Confirming Meeting with the Board -
Tuesday 13 March - 3:30pm</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">NCSG has the opportunity to
meet with the ICANN Board of Directors in
Costa Rica. We need to identify the 3 topics
/ questions that we are most interested in
discussing with the Board during our hour with
them.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">One possible topic I'd
like to suggest is ICANN's importance in
defending the multi-stakeholder model of
governance. We've seen a lot of pressure
from governments recently to exert more
control on the Internet and on ICANN
policymaking activities. It might be good
to reiterate to the board that we support
multi-stakeholderism in which civil society
is an equal participant to business and
government in policymaking and that ICANN
can lead to defend this private-sector led
governance model.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What do others think? We
should come up a top 3 list to propose to
the board by 2 March.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Robin<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Begin forwarded
message:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Diane
Schroeder <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:diane.schroeder@icann.org">diane.schroeder@icann.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Date:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">February
22, 2012 12:27:58 PM PST</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">To:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Robin
Gross <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Cc:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Glen
de Saint Géry <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Glen@icann.org">Glen@icann.org</a>>,
David Olive <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:david.olive@icann.org">david.olive@icann.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Subject:
Confirming Meeting with the Board -
Tuesday 13 March - 3:30pm</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Dear
Robin - this will confirm
that the Board will be meeting
with the Noncommercial
Stakeholder Group on Tuesday
13 March from 3:30pm to
4:30pm. The arrangements will
be similar to those in Dakar –
there will be a head table and
class room style with
additional chair seating.
Interpretation and scribing
will be provided for the
meeting.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">It
would be helpful if the
Stakeholder Group could
identify the three
topics/questions that they are
most interested in discussing
with the Board and sending
those to me by Friday 2 March.
I will endeavor to the same
on behalf of the Board.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Please
let me know if you have any
questions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Regards, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Diane
Schroeder</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="apple-style-span"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Director
of Board Support</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="apple-style-span"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">ICANN</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="apple-style-span"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">4676
Admiralty Way, Ste. 330</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="apple-style-span"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Marina
del Rey, CA 90292</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="apple-style-span"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">+1-310-823-9358
(main)</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="apple-style-span"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">+1-310-301-5827
(direct)</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="apple-style-span"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">+1-310-823-8649
(fax)</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="apple-style-span"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">+1-562-644-2524
(mobile)</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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