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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I really sympathize with Judy’s concern, but I think that it is impossible to manage a group of this size and diversity in the way Judy suggests.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The best way to manage is to automatically sort the NCSG messages into a separate folder and scan it when you have time.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">We get conflicting pressures from ICANN: add more members, be more broadly representative, but of course few of us have the time to read through 20-30 emails
a day from an ICANN-related list. If you join a policy development working group that is working on a controversial issue, the traffic load will be even higher. It is an issue of the scalability of the multistakeholder model.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Creating multiple lists makes the problem worse, not better, as we’ve learned the hard way. The people off the main list simply isolate themselves, and half
of us don’t know where to look for information. All kinds of confusion prevails as we fragment into different lists. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A bit of good news: Some of this high traffic is temporary, due to the novelty of having a new constituency in the NCSG. We will not be having this many procedural
and credentials debates in the future. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> NCSG-Discuss [mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Branzelle, Judy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 22, 2011 9:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCSG-Discuss] listservs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">To clarify, I am a member of many committees and listserves. We get our work done, after the opportunity to fully vet ideas. However, I do not receive an average
of 5 emails a day from any of these groups, and I am interested and excited to read the emails I do get. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Here's my suggestion: Robin identifies an issue where a decision must be made and sends an email identifying the issue as such. The issue is discussed for a
set period (3-4 days), and after that time members weigh in on their decision so the decision of the group can be established. If some desire to have an ongoing discussion further on that or other matters, they may do so on a different listserve.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Judy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> NCSG-Discuss
<a href="mailto:[mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU]">[mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joly MacFie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 22, 2011 5:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: listservs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think you are missing Judy's point. She is saying she wishes to stay involved and informed, without the debates. A well curated announce list is the only solution. Working in harmony with the confluence as a reference.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Avris's further point is this is as true for NCSG as it is for NCUC.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If furthermore NCUC needs to "get a room" to hash out internal discussions, so be it. IMO it's not a question of if but when.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">j<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:13 AM, William Drake <<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It seems we're talking about several different rationales/models for the possible creation of an NCUC listserv, each of which has different implications. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">One, which appeals to me, would be a list for discussing any purely internal process stuff. So discussions (and the occasional disagreements) about how the constituency organizes its affairs, e.g. elections, filling slots on SG bodies
or GNSO working groups, and so on, as well as any announcements from the constituency leadership, would go to this list. Discussions of substantive issues related to GNSO or Internet governance more generally would remain on the SG list, since these really
should be of interest to both constituencies' members.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">A second, which Avri and Joly are suggesting, would be a list solely for announcements and administrative messages from the constituency leadership. Personally, I'm not sure I see how much this would help, since a) it's not obvious that
there's going to be a need for so many such one-way messages to justify a separate list, and b) this would not address the sort of complaints made by Alain about messages pertaining to NCUC laundry, dirty or otherwise.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">A third, which if I understand her correctly Judy Branzelle is suggesting, would be a list that hosts the bulk of discussions both substantive and process, on the grounds that there's just too much mail to read. This I have even more difficulty
with than the second. While I can understand NPOC members not wanting to read NCUC internal process debates (any more than NCUC members want to read NPOC internal process debates), now that the chartering and reorganization are done, most of our traffic should
normally be on substantive issues, as it was before we had to deal with the institutional tumult. I would think that anyone who's made the commitment to get involved in GNSO/ICANN, or at least to keep an eye on developments therein even if they can't consistently
participate, should want to be connected to the substantive discussions. Moving these into an NCUC-only space would impede collective awareness of the issues and make coordination on them more difficult. A rump SG list that doesn't host these probably would
have relatively little traffic or value. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Just my view. What do others think?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:26 AM, Joly MacFie wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'd say yes to both.<br>
<br>
j<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
<br>
The other possibility, it the NCSG leadership is willing to countenance another list, which in the past they weren't, they could establish a NCSG announce list that our leaders could us for informational and transparency purposes.<br>
<br>
Or maybe there could be both a NCSG and a NCUC announce-only list for our leaders to use for announcements and transparency when they are acting in the best interests of the membership of the respective organizations.<br>
<span style="color:#888888"><br>
avri</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
On 17 Nov 2011, at 15:00, Joly MacFie wrote:<br>
<br>
> My 2c.<br>
><br>
> I believe there should at least be a NCUC-MEMBERS (or suitable equivalent) list, announce-only, for announcements and admin - then people who might otherwise be ignoring the general to-and-fro of NCSG-discuss can set their filters so as to get important notices.<br>
><br>
> j<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> Joly MacFie <a href="tel:218%20565%209365" target="_blank">218 565 9365</a> Skype:punkcast<br>
> WWWhatsup NYC - <a href="http://wwwhatsup.com/" target="_blank">http://wwwhatsup.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://pinstand.com/" target="_blank">http://pinstand.com</a> - <a href="http://punkcast.com/" target="_blank">
http://punkcast.com</a><br>
> VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - <a href="http://isoc-ny.org/" target="_blank">http://isoc-ny.org</a><br>
> --------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> -<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
---------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Joly MacFie <a href="tel:218%20565%209365" target="_blank">218 565 9365</a> Skype:punkcast<br>
WWWhatsup NYC - <a href="http://wwwhatsup.com/" target="_blank">http://wwwhatsup.com</a><br>
<a href="http://pinstand.com/" target="_blank">http://pinstand.com</a> - <a href="http://punkcast.com/" target="_blank">
http://punkcast.com</a><br>
VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - <a href="http://isoc-ny.org/" target="_blank">http://isoc-ny.org</a><br>
--------------------------------------------------------------<br>
-<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
---------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast<br>
WWWhatsup NYC - <a href="http://wwwhatsup.com" target="_blank">http://wwwhatsup.com</a><br>
<a href="http://pinstand.com" target="_blank">http://pinstand.com</a> - <a href="http://punkcast.com" target="_blank">
http://punkcast.com</a><br>
VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - <a href="http://isoc-ny.org" target="_blank">http://isoc-ny.org</a><br>
--------------------------------------------------------------<br>
-<o:p></o:p></p>
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