Hi Tamir,<div><br></div><div>interesting!...Thanks for sharing.</div><div><br></div><div>BTW, no apologies needed... </div><div><br></div><div>I understand the appeal feature...right now the balance of power within NCSG would make it ineffective. Appealing or using ombdusman should be a last resort when dialogue has broken down. Much more deesirable to look at the facts, most often then, the decision becomes obvious.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I think an organization interested in ICANN can choose to join the Constituency that makes the most sense for that organization... and use the Statement of Interest (SOI) to be transparent about secondary interests or apparent conflicts of interest... Where I have a concern is when those "other" interests are not declared at all... and/or that SOIs are not available... It always raise the issue if this is as a result of neglect or by design... neither options are much desirable!</div>
<div><br></div><div>Indeed, all this is needed to keep ICANN a true multi-stakeholder organization. Bill Clinton, like him or not, made that very clear at his San Francisco address during ICANN 40. His text should be required reading for all new comers to ICANN and a good refresher for all.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Cheers, Alain<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Tamir Israel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tisrael@cippic.ca">tisrael@cippic.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<u></u>
<u></u>
<u></u>
<div lang="EN-CA" link="blue" vlink="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">Hi Alain,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">Thank you for clarifying this for me. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">I apologize if I am merely rehashing m<u></u>at<u></u>ters th<u></u>at<u></u>
have already been addressed (I am somewh<u></u>at<u></u>
new to the list). From wh<u></u>at<u></u> I
understand, it is fairly common for groups such as this to assess membership
internally with an appeal process. Th<u></u>at<u></u>
appears to be the practice for other constituency groups: <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><a href="http://www.ipconstituency.org/join-the-ipc/" target="_blank">http://www.ipconstituency.org/join-the-ipc/</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><a href="http://www.ipconstituency.org/bylaws/" target="_blank">http://www.ipconstituency.org/bylaws/</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><a href="http://www.bizconst.org/responsibilities.htm" target="_blank">http://www.bizconst.org/responsibilities.htm</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><a href="http://www.bizconst.org/charter.htm" target="_blank">http://www.bizconst.org/charter.htm</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">I think this is to some extent unavoidable.
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">I note with some amusement th<u></u>at<u></u> my own legal clinic (CIPPIC) would likely qualify
for both the IP and the Bus constituencies, given a very narrow interpret<u></u>at<u></u>ion, because, while we advoc<u></u>at<u></u>e
in the public interest, we are composed of copyright lawyers and do on occasion
consult with for-profit e-commerce organiz<u></u>at<u></u>ions
where this will further the public interest. However, were we to do so, I think
it would pose serious challenges for a multi-stakeholder model such as th<u></u>at<u></u> ICANN aspires to.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">Tamir<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
Alain Berranger [mailto:<a href="mailto:alain.berranger@gmail.com" target="_blank">alain.berranger@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> November 14, 2011 2:36 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Tamir Israel<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@listserv.syr.edu" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@listserv.syr.edu</a></span></font></p><div class="im"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: Question about NCUC
faq rel<u></u>at<u></u>ing to membership</font></div><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span><p></p>
</div><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Tamir,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">no objection <u></u>at<u></u> all... as an applied research grantmaking
practitioner in the past, as well as a retired evalu<u></u>at<u></u>ion
consultant for intern<u></u>at<u></u>ional
development agencies, I have seen the benefits of assessments being made on the
basis of facts (or evidence if you prefer) which I define as objectively
verifiable by an independant and uninterested third party. I suggest th<u></u>at<u></u> norm be followed for admitting members into our
constituencies and stakeholders' group.<br>
<br>
Alain<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 <u></u>at<u></u> 2:03
PM, Tamir <u></u><u></u>Israel<u></u><u></u>
<<a href="mailto:tisrael@cippic.ca" target="_blank">tisrael@cippic.ca</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div link="blue" vlink="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">Hi there,</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">I just wanted to clarify if you’re objection is to <u></u>at<u></u>tempts <u></u>at<u></u>
assessing ‘real non-commercial’ in general, or to specific
line-drawing with respect to one applic<u></u>at<u></u>ion
(Olympic committee). If the objective is to ensure true represent<u></u>at<u></u>ion of non-commercial interests, legal (or .org)
non-profit st<u></u>at<u></u>us is not enough, I
think. It would be far too easy to game, as any commercial interest can quite
easily set up a non-profit wing. In fact, it’s fairly common practice for
industry or business groups to set up non-profits precisely for the purpose of
advancing commercial interests. I can think of many examples.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">The legal criteria for ‘non-profit’
rel<u></u>at<u></u>e to financial structuring, not
to ‘interests advanced’. There do not appear to be any requirements
for .org registr<u></u>at<u></u>ion. Given this, I
think it is incumbent upon NCSG to do some sort of assessment to ensure th<u></u>at<u></u> it remains represent<u></u>at<u></u>ive
of non-commercial interests.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">Best,</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy">Tamir</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:navy"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> NCSG-Discuss [mailto:<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Alain Berranger<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> November 13, 2011 12:23 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: Question about NCUC
faq rel<u></u>at<u></u>ing to membership</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Meanwhile, I think
we can only be taken seriously inside and outside ICANN and do meaningful work,
if we have hundred more if not thousands of NGO/NFP members... so arguing about
this NGO or this NFP being a "real non-commercial" seems
counterproductive to me!... You will surely agree with me th<u></u>at<u></u> academics support evidence-based decisions and
the definition of an NGO/NFP is not rocket science neither...<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-- <br>
Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Member, Board of Directors, CECI, <a href="http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/" target="_blank">http://www.ceci.ca</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, <a href="http://www.schulich.yorku.ca" target="_blank">www.schulich.yorku.ca</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">NA represent<u></u>at<u></u>ive,
Chasquinet Found<u></u>at<u></u>ion, </span></font><font color="#0a246a" face="serif"><span style="font-family:serif;color:#0A246A"><a href="http://www.chasquinet.org" target="_blank">www.chasquinet.org</a></span></font><br>
interim Vice Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, <a href="http://npoc.org/" target="_blank">http://npoc.org/</a><br>
O:<a href="tel:%2B1%20514%20484%207824" value="+15144847824" target="_blank">+1 514 484 7824</a>; M:<a href="tel:%2B1%20514%20704%207824" value="+15147047824" target="_blank">+1 514 704 7824</a><br>
Skype: alain.berranger<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA<div>Member, Board of Directors, CECI, <a href="http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/" target="_blank">http://www.ceci.ca</a><br>
<div>Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, <a href="http://www.schulich.yorku.ca" target="_blank">www.schulich.yorku.ca</a></div><div>NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, <font color="#0a246a" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><a href="http://www.chasquinet.org" target="_blank">www.chasquinet.org</a></font><br>
interim Vice Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, <a href="http://npoc.org/" target="_blank">http://npoc.org/</a><br>O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824<br>Skype: alain.berranger<br></div></div><br>
</div>