Thanks Andrew,<div><br></div><div>I understand and appreciate your clarifications - no surprise for me and I generally agree with your stated views here. </div><div><br></div><div>Indeed, we all have multiple "personalities" and I'm no exception! I also understand the "expert" argument. I think experts should feed the dialogue not necessarely always lead it... </div>
<div><br></div><div>Regarding my statement of interest in this, and to be transparent, I'm in the process of requesting NPOC membership for CECI - see <a href="http://www.ceci.ca/fr/">http://www.ceci.ca/fr/</a> - one of the oldest and largest NGOs in Canada. I sit on the Board of CECI since early October.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The issue I guess I'm struggling with is "who speaks for whom"? I do not think individuals like myself or academics like yourself or IP lawyers for that matter can speak for the global NGO/NFP community... no single federations of NGO/NFPs like the Association for Progressive Communications or the Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation and many others can neither....Increasing the voice of NGO/NFPs in ICANN is very important and if experts are to lead or feed their inter-stakeholders' dialogue, it should be to inform the larger community on the practical concerns regarding the internet and its consequences/impact on their daily work. </div>
<div><br></div><div>In relatively stable environments like Japan or Canada, just to name a pair, NGO/NFP work is facilitated by a powerful and very accessible internet. In environments like Ecuador and The Gambia, NGO/NFP work is a life sustaining but also risky and even dangerous activity... I personally strive to get thousands of NGO/NFP members into NPOC, because there can only be real representation if there are sufficient numbers and democratic representation. So I do not know who speaks for the NGO/NFP in ICANN really until we have enough such organizations involved... a critical+ mass if you wish.... NCSG has maybe 100 to 120 institutional members right now at best, probably much much less if we require a corporate decision to join (NPOC does that by the way), and creating NPOC was a struggle to begin with and the subject of much tension and mistrust, which still is a wound that has not yet healed... Meanwhile, I think we can only be taken seriously inside and outside ICANN and do meaningful work, if we have hundred more if not thousands of NGO/NFP members... so arguing about this NGO or this NFP being a "real non-commercial" seems counterproductive to me!... You will surely agree with me that academics support evidence-based decisions and the definition of an NGO/NFP is not rocket science neither...</div>
<div><br></div><div>Yet, self-interest is core to human nature, can lead to great achievements and drives most - I simply postulate that self-interest must take back seat to the institutional/organizational vision and mission we work for, inside and outside ICANN...</div>
<div><br></div><div>Best, Alain<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Andrew A. Adams <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aaa@meiji.ac.jp">aaa@meiji.ac.jp</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Alain wrote:<br>
[snip]<br>
> In fact, there is a significantly different membership culture between NPOC=<br>
> and NCUC... because NPOC is only interested in NFP/NGO organizational memb=<br>
> ers while NCUC mixes memberships from NFP/NGOs, academia (some could be for=<br>
> profit) and individuals (who may also have for profit motives or even be i=<br>
<div class="im">> nvolved in two organizations, one for profit and one not for profit).<br>
<br>
</div>Alain,<br>
<br>
Please note that your statement here conflates individual academics and<br>
universities. Yes, one could be an academic working for a forprofit<br>
university an be a member of NCSG-NCUC. However, that would only be as an<br>
individual. Even academics orking for for-profit institutions generally have<br>
a non-profit interest in the domain name system. No aademic would be<br>
permitted to represent a for-profit university within NCSG-NCUC membership<br>
rules, only themselves.<br>
<br>
Yes, people have multiple identities and an academic with a non-commercial<br>
interest in domain names could be an NCSG-NCUC member on that basis and also<br>
perhaps represent (their own spin-off commercial company perhaps) a<br>
commercial entity in another SG.<br>
<br>
The role of academics is to provide expert insight and (mostly)<br>
non-self-interested analysis. Most academics do not claim or want to<br>
represent their universities. Universities (the vast majority of which are<br>
non-profit, whether private or public universities) would generally be better<br>
represented in NCSG by computing staff rather than academics, usually,<br>
although sometimes senior academics are also senior computing service<br>
managers/directors (I know of two so there are probably quite a few more).<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">--<br>
Professor Andrew A Adams <a href="mailto:aaa@meiji.ac.jp">aaa@meiji.ac.jp</a><br>
Professor at Graduate School of Business Administration, and<br>
Deputy Director of the Centre for Business Information Ethics<br>
Meiji University, Tokyo, Japan <a href="http://www.a-cubed.info/" target="_blank">http://www.a-cubed.info/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA<div>Member, Board of Directors, CECI, <a href="http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/" target="_blank">http://www.ceci.ca</a><br>
<div>Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, <a href="http://www.schulich.yorku.ca" target="_blank">www.schulich.yorku.ca</a></div><div>NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, <font color="#0a246a" face="'Times New Roman', Times, serif"><a href="http://www.chasquinet.org" target="_blank">www.chasquinet.org</a></font><br>
interim Vice Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, <a href="http://npoc.org/" target="_blank">http://npoc.org/</a><br>O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824<br>Skype: alain.berranger<br></div></div><br>
</div>