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--></style><title>Re: U.S. Government Seizes BitTorrent Search Engine
Domain</title></head><body>
<div>What's the difference between looking for music torrent files
(e.g., from U2) on torrentfinder.com or torrentfinder.info...</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>(URL linking to the "U2" search results below:)</div>
<div
>[http://torrent-finder.info/show.php?q=u2&Browse=tabs&PageLo<span
></span
>ad=loadall&select=13&sids=369-23-314-323-21-388-372-9-16-395<span
></span
>-344-364-406-389-361-226-1-3-84-36-6-396-316-386-334-18-37-29-60-367<span
></span
>-365-44-253-38-48-8-15-306-4-337-14-330-252-56-108-313-54-51-351-370<span
></span
>-72-80-264-55-245-307-340-41-353-390-343-276-368-393-5-26-296-31-325<span
></span
>-20-387-251-238-68-77-7-65-397-35-405-246-404-256-333-379-385-249-27<span
></span
>9-105-87-319-320-89-377-99-104-298-133-109-262-378-347-293-274-119-1<span
></span
>40-282-110-373-122-257-144-284-403-103-311-123-142-381-283-391-401-8<span
></span
>5-97-141-121-374-101-324-375-52-153-154-400-394-280-150-317-346-399-<span
></span
>269-345-336-402-392-339-363-92-329-120-354-357-155-398-156-157-321-3<span
></span>55-162-303-166-165-167-169-]</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>... and going to Google (or Bing, or any other search engine) to
find torrent files about the same band?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>(URL linking to the "U2" and ".torrent"
search results below:)</div>
<div
>[http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=<span
></span
>u2+.torrent&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq<span
></span>=u2+.torrent&gs_rfai=&fp=cb647db4758c7406]</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>If you click on either link, the results are about the same: they
both point you to torrent files or to websites linking to them.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Does this mean that the DHS-ICE will soon order Google and other
non-torrent specific search engines to censor their results whenever
they link to torrent files, or to websites linking themselves to
torrent files, or to websites linking to other websites linking
themselves to torrent files, or all of them?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Are those websites then also considered to be "intentionally
and knowingly trafficking in counterfeit goods" like what the ICE
considers torrent-finder.com to be doing?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Why are torrent-finder's conditions of use not considered
valid?</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>There is no copyrighted material on this
page or any page herein, nor do we link directly to copyrighted
material. Materials falling under copyright laws in the United States,
and/or any nation with similar copyright laws, obtained indirectly
through this site are not the responsibility of this site's
administrator as the files are distributed by outside sources not
having any affiliation or contact with this site or it's
administrator. The administrator of the site does not condone
copyright infringement and does not actively participate in the direct
distribution of copyrighted materials, nor will he/she direct users to
any such copyrighted materials. In accepting this agreement, you
forfeit the right to hold the administrator and/or the host of this
site responsible for any materials obtained directly or indirectly
from this page and/or the pages herein. The author's use of TORRENT
files and the BitTorrent client are for educational purposes only. By
using the TORRENT files on this site for the purpose of committing
copyright infringement, you acknowledge full responsibility for any
legal consequences of your actions. If you do not agree with any
and/or all of this agreement, you are legally required to leave this
site. For further inquiries, please contact
kurtubba@gmail.com</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>(http://torrent-finder.info/agreement.php)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Cedric</div>
<div>---</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Hi Marc,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Marc
Rotenberg <<a
href="mailto:rotenberg@epic.org">rotenberg@epic.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote>According to the New York York Times, it was the Dept
of</blockquote>
<blockquote>Homeland Security (the same agency that brought us<br>
airport body scanners) that seized the BitTorrent site and others.<br>
This seems odd since it is the US Dept of Justice that would<br>
typically investigate copyright matters.<br>
<br>
Note also that this action took place prior to Senate
action</blockquote>
<blockquote>on COICA.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Yes. In fact, this type of seizure
by ICE occurred previously this past summer, e.g., <a
href=
"http://www.thedomains.com/2010/07/01/feds-seize-9-domains-for-copyright-infringement-but-based-on-what-law/"><span
></span
>http://www.thedomains.com/2010/07/01/feds-seize-9-domains-for-copyri<span
></span>ght-infringement-but-based-on-what-law/</a></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Speculating on the relationship to COICA,
perhaps the legislation is being pushed to provide solid legal
justification for these type of seizures. Or maybe to pressure
US-based DNS operators to simply comply with DHS ICE seizure requests
(as one registry apparently did in this case).</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>--</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Brenden Kuerbis</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Internet Governance Project</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><a
href="http://internetgovernance.org">http://internetgovernance.org</a
></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> <br>
<blockquote>Marc Rotenberg<br>
EPIC<br>
<br>
-----------------------------<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><a
href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/technology/27torrent.html"
>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/technology/27torrent.html</a><br>
<br>
U.S. Shuts Down Web Sites in Piracy Crackdown<br>
By BEN SISARIO<br>
Published: November 26, 2010<br>
<br>
In what appears to be the latest phase of a far-reaching federal<br>
crackdown on online piracy of music and movies, the Web addresses
of<br>
a number of sites that facilitate illegal file-sharing were seized<br>
this week by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a division of
the<br>
Department of Homeland Security.<br>
<br>
By Friday morning, visiting the addresses of a handful of sites
that<br>
either hosted unauthorized copies of films and music or allowed<br>
users to search for them elsewhere on the Internet produced a
notice<br>
that said, in part: "This domain name has been seized by ICE -<br>
Homeland Security Investigations, pursuant to a seizure warrant<br>
issued by a United States District Court."<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote> * * *<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Nov 27, 2010, at 1:57 AM, Alex Gakuru wrote:<br>
<br>
> Does this mean *all* search engines with links will be shut
down<br>
> anytime, including 'Big G'?</blockquote>
<blockquote>><br>
> On 11/27/10, Alex Gakuru <<a
href="mailto:gakuru@gmail.com">gakuru@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Why complained earlier on expectations that cash strapped
ccTLDs especially<br>
>> in Africa/developing cannot afford parallel servers,
databases and time<br>
>> costs to enforce third parties IP/copyrights/trademark etc
interests. It</blockquote>
<blockquote>>> somehow 'feels' safer NOT to register a .com
now?<br>
>><br>
>> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Robin Gross <<a
href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a>>
wrote:</blockquote>
<blockquote>>><br>
>>> The latest info that I've seen is that Verisign assigned
new DNS servers<br>
>>> at the Registry level, and then locked the domain so that
even the<br>
>>> Registrar<br>
>>> can't update it. So now it looks like it may have
been VeriSign who<br>
>>> "seized" them. No word on ICANN's role in
this situation, if any.<br>
>>><br>
>>></blockquote>
<blockquote>>>><br>
>>> On Nov 26, 2010, at 8:29 PM, Marc Perkel wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> So was it ICANN that actually did the seizing?<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 11/26/2010 7:25 PM, Michael Haffely wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> The concerning part about the report from today is that
the domain owner<br>
>>> never received any complaint or due process before the
domains were<br>
>>> seized.<br>
>>> It appears that no Cease and Desist, warrant, suit, or
other criminal<br>
>>> complaint was brought up before the domain was taken.
What if (for an<br>
>>> example) this behavior is taken up by the Patent and
Copyright "trolls".<br>
>>> What happens to an individual/nonprofit/organization when
they have their<br>
>>> domain yanked out from under them?<br>
>>><br>
>>> If ICANN is to seize domains from their rightful owners
by demand of a<br>
>>> law<br>
>>> enforcement agency we need to have a clear, *rapid*
appeals process to<br>
>>> prevent abuse by corporations, law enforcement agencies,
and governments.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> -Mike H.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Andrew A. Adams <<a
href="mailto:aaa@meiji.ac.jp">aaa@meiji.ac.jp</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Very similar moves are happening in the UK, with
Nominet (UK non-profit<br>
>>>> with<br>
>>>> the .uk (and .gb) country-code delegation) engaging
with the UK's SOCA<br>
>>>> (Serious and Organised Crime Agency *) to remove 1200
"sites engaged in</blockquote>
<blockquote>>>>> selling counterfeit goods" recently
and now doing a more explicit deal<br>
>>>> with<br>
>>>> the police to take down the DNS registration for
sites "alleged to be<br>
>>>> involved in criminal activity".<br>
>>>></blockquote>
<blockquote>>>>> <a
href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/25/nominet_crime/"
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/25/nominet_crime/</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> (*) The SOCA is a rather dodgy organisation, IMHO.
When it was set up<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>> then home secrewtary made a big thing of it not being
actually police<br>
>>>> and<br>
>>>> therefore not bound by the requirements that the
police have to respect</blockquote>
<blockquote>>>>> the<br>
>>>> human rights of citizens. THat's a recipe for a
secret police operating<br>
>>>> extra-judicially and here we see exactly that kind of
approach.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I am very worried by these kinds of moves. Zittrain's
"The Future of the<br>
>>>> Internet" and Mueller's "Networks and
States" concerns about censorship<br>
>>>> becoming the norm not the exception online seem to be
coming true. While<br>
>>>> I'm<br>
>>>> not in favour of criminals having free reign, the
trouble is that all<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>> hard won freedoms such as due process, balance of
rights, etc. seem to<br>
>>>> be<br>
>>>> being thrown out in the digital domain.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>></blockquote>
<blockquote>>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Professor Andrew A
Adams <span
></span> <a
href="mailto:aaa@meiji.ac.jp">aaa@meiji.ac.jp</a><br>
>>>> Professor at Graduate School of Business
Administration, and<br>
>>>> Deputy Director of the Centre for Business
Information Ethics<br>
>>>> Meiji University, Tokyo,
Japan <a
href="http://www.a-cubed.info/">http://www.a-cubed.info/</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> IP JUSTICE<br>
>>> Robin Gross, Executive Director<br>
>>> 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117
USA<br>
>>> p: +1-415-553-6261 f:
+1-415-462-6451<br>
>>> w: <a
href="http://www.ipjustice.org">http://www.ipjustice.org</a
> e: <a
href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Alex Gakuru<br>
>> <a
href="http://www.mwenyeji.com">http://www.mwenyeji.com</a><br>
>> Hosting, surprise yourself!<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> regards,<br>
><br>
> Alex Gakuru<br>
> <a href="http://www.mwenyeji.com">http://www.mwenyeji.com</a><br>
> Hosting, surprise yourself!</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>--
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div><font face="Futura" size="-1" color="#000000">Cedric Laurant,
Esq.</font></div>
<div><font face="Futura" size="-1" color="#000000">Attorney at Law
(DC-USA) - Independent Consultant (Brussels, Belgium)</font></div>
<div><font face="Futura" size="-1" color="#000000">Senior Research
Fellow, Center for Media and Communication Studies</font></div>
<div><font face="Futura" size="-1" color="#000000">Central European
University (Budapest, Hungary)</font></div>
<div><font face="Futura" size="-1"
color="#000000"><cedric@laurant.org> - Skype:
cedrichl</font></div>
<div><font face="Futura" size="-1" color="#000000">Profile:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cedriclaurant</font></div>
<div><font face="Futura" size="-1" color="#000000">Blogs:
http://blog.cedriclaurant.org -
http://blog.security-breaches.com</font></div>
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