I start to return account to me that this debate is focused on a
problem of leadership to the place to consider tracks of mobilizing
solution on the problems which worry us.
In my African reading, when you discuss vertical integration, I am
likely to include/understand a form of dictat ones on those which do
not have the capacity to react promptly to your arguments in the
language where you express yourselves easily.<br><br>Or then we want to build a platform mobilizing and included!!!
<br><br><br><br><br clear="all">SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN<br>COORDONNATEUR DU CENTRE AFRICAIN D'ECHANGE CULTUREL (CAFEC)<br>COORDONNATEUR NATIONAL REPRONTIC<br>MEMBRE FACILITATEUR GAID AFRIQUE<br>GNSO and NCUC MEMBER (ICANN)<br>
<br>Téléphone mobile: +243998983491/+243999334571<br> +243811980914<br>email: <a href="mailto:b.schombe@gmail.com">b.schombe@gmail.com</a><br>blog: <a href="http://akimambo.unblog.fr">http://akimambo.unblog.fr</a><br>
siège temporaire : Boulevard du 30 juin Immeuble Royal, Entrée A,7e niveau.<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/1/22 Milton L Mueller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="margin: 4px 4px 1px; font-family: Tahoma; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<div><span>Mary</span></div>
<div><span>As I said before, I don't think the decision
to not copy NCUC-DISCUSS in these policy discussions was a deliberate attempt to
exclude anyone. But it was a mistake nevertheless! One easily corrected,
too. So I don't agree with your analysis below, and I think it's importnat to
make that point. It's a question of accountability and of encouraging greater
education and involvement among our members.</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>It is clear from the discussion that we were
not just discussing wording, but substantive differences over policy. Indeed, I
have often been told by Bill and others that people need to be educated more
about this issue, that I was pushing too fast for agreement on a statement, etc.
</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>It's abundantly clear that there were
serious disagreements over policy, especially between Avri and me. If the
members agree with Avri and not me, fine. I can roll with that. To prevent that
discussion from being aired before the constituency was just wrong.
</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>--MM</span></div><br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us">
<hr>
<b>From:</b> Non-Commercial User Constituency
[mailto:<a href="mailto:NCUC-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCUC-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mary
Wong<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 21, 2010 8:22 PM<br><b>To:</b>
<a href="mailto:NCUC-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCUC-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [NCUC-DISCUSS] NCUC &
NCSG (and relevance to vertical integration discussion)<br><br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div></div>
<div>Hi everyone (esp. those members who - understandably - may be
increasingly puzzled/frustrated by the confusion surrounding ICANN's
restructuring of constituencies etc.),</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Please don't think there is a list of "special people" conducting policy
discussions that exclude you. As Avri notes, the ICANN non-commercial
community has been re-organized into a Stakeholder Group (the Non-Commercial
Stakeholder Group, or NCSG). Similarly, the other constituencies - Registries,
Registrars, IP, Business and ISPs - have also been restructured as SGs (with
the IPC, BC and ISPC now forming a single Commercial Stakeholder Group, or
CSG). One of the ideas behind a SG structure is that more individuals,
interests and constituencies will form and the ICANN community grow larger and
more diverse.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>NCUC is currently the only constituency within the NCSG. When all the
various SGs were formally recognized at the last ICANN meeting, the NCSG
established committees to deal with policy, administrative and other issues.
The present Vertical Integration discussion took place within the NCSG Policy
Committee (which, as Avri says, consists of all 6 Councillors and officers of
BOTH the NCSG and NCUC), and was essentially a discussion over whether and how
to frame a motion regarding a Policy Development Process (PDP) for Vertical
Integration.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The discussion was largely over wording, process and clarifying
various meanings and positions. The broader discussion upon which this was
based were the public emails, statements and open discussions that took place
here on the NCUC listserv and in other fora.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>All the NCSG-Policy discussions were understood to have the objective of
ascertaining the best position/proposal to put forward on behalf of the NCSG.
There was a preliminary question as to whether there *might* be a different
position taken as betwen the NCSG and NCUC, but it seems to me that
everyone quickly clearly felt that a single, unified
position/proposal was both desirable and possible. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I don't wish to speak on behalf of the other 5 Councillors, but I am 100%
certain that all of us, and all the NCSG and NCUC officers who were part of
those discussions, were always acting in the best interests of non-commercial
users, whether they are technically part of NCUC or NCSG.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I hope this helps clarify the situation.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div>Mary</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div><b><font color="#800080">Mary W S Wong</font></b></div>
<div>Professor of Law & Chair, Graduate IP Programs</div>
<div>Franklin Pierce Law Center</div>
<div>Two White Street</div>
<div>Concord, NH 03301</div>
<div>USA</div>
<div>Email: <a href="mailto:mwong@piercelaw.edu" target="_blank">mwong@piercelaw.edu</a></div>
<div>Phone: 1-603-513-5143</div>
<div>Webpage: <a href="http://www.piercelaw.edu/marywong/index.php" target="_blank">http://www.piercelaw.edu/marywong/index.php</a></div>
<div>Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network
(SSRN) at: <a href="http://ssrn.com/author=437584" target="_blank">http://ssrn.com/author=437584</a></div><br><br>>>>
</div>
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<div style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(5, 5, 5); padding-left: 7px;">
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<tr valign="top">
<td><b>From: </b></td>
<td>Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@LTU.SE" target="_blank">avri@LTU.SE</a>></td></tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td><b>To:</b></td>
<td><<a href="mailto:NCUC-DISCUSS@listserv.syr.edu" target="_blank">NCUC-DISCUSS@listserv.syr.edu</a>></td></tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td><b>Date: </b></td>
<td>1/21/2010 6:43 PM</td></tr>
<tr valign="top">
<td><b>Subject: </b></td>
<td>Re: [ncsg-policy] How's this (edited motion on
VI)</td></tr></tbody></table>Hi,<br><br>I am sorry but there is the NCUC
and there is the NCSG. and while as of tadya there is only 1
member of the NCSG who is not also NCUC, I hope this wil not remain the
case once we open NCSG membership.<br><br>The lists of special peple is
the NCSG-Executive Committee, the Council members and the chair of the
NCUC. The list has an open archive.<br><br>Even in NCUC, there
were multiple lists.<br><br>a.<br><br>On 22 Jan 2010, at 00:23, Jorge
Amodio wrote:<br><br><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
I agree with Milton and I'm really disturbed about the existence of a
parallel list of "selected" people.</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
We are constantly trying to avoid this modus operandi at ICANN and one
of the reasons I joined NCUC/NCSG is because I thought it was an open
space to exchange ideas, discuss and learn about policy, and with my
participation I was trying also to contribute a little bit from the
technical side since there is a big disconnect. No wonder
why.</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
Avri, with all due respect and please don't take it personal, but since
you brought the GNSO kool-aid here now I find myself listening to
dialogs that I don't understand where have been initiated, since I
didn't have the opportunity to participate in person at any of the ICANN
meetings I feel excluded, and I have to spend a lot of time looking for
documents that seem difficult to find by design, etc.</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
This is not good.</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
I'm for transcripts, and I'm against separate mailing lists unless we
are talking about specific working groups where the list is open to
anybody to subscribe and read.</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
My .02</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
Jorge</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;">>
</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;"><br></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br>