<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>Moving this from the EC to the members list as it may be of broader interest. I don't see anything in the thread below that is unsuitable for wider distribution, my apologies to whomever if they think that's a misjudgment. </div><div><br></div> I've raised this bilaterally with a few people who expressed interest but it's never percolated out into the broader ideasphere, so here goes.<div><br></div><div>It has been suggested that NCUC councilors could propose a motion to launch a PDP on the IRT recommendations, since this is a policy decision, not an "implementation," and open and pluralistic GNSO processes were bypassed by the IPC's swank traveling road show. I can see the benefit of pursuing this approach from the standpoints of a) building healthy institutional practices in ICANN and b) slowing down the movement toward adoption of lousy policy. On the other hand, there might be a tactical trade-off. Were a motion to be adopted (not clear who'd support it) it would turn the discussion into another turgid GNSO bureaucratic exercise. To the extent that NCUC and ALAC have been able to point to the illegitimacy of the process being followed as well as the crap outputs in order to mobilize attention, engagement and support, "nomalizing" the thing might turn down the heat, nix the press coverage, and dampen some of the enthusiasm that's worked to the benefit of cs@icann. </div><div><br></div><div>What do people think? Should we put a motion to the next council meeting? Kathy seems to think yes, below...</div><div><br></div><div>I believe the next council call is Aug. 13, so we'd have to get it in and feel out the possible support in early Aug.</div><div><br></div><div>Bill</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div><div><div>On Jul 23, 2009, at 9:40 PM, Kathy Kleiman wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"> <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Tx Robin, it is terrific news, and we are pleased with all the opposition and concern raised so far: in the speeches, with publicity, and now at the upcoming ICANN meeting.<br> <br> In answer to your excellent question, until we meet with staff, we do not know what ICANN has in mind. We do know they have received considerable criticism on the report, and that they are willing to rethink aspects of it. How much, how far (?) we don't know. But given the support of the IPC, Registrars, Registries, WIPO and US Dept. of Commerce for the IRT Report, it is very unlikely it can be stopped entirely. <br> <br> What NCUC submitted in our procedural comments to the IRT is that the ICANN staff must work very closely with all sides, not just the IRT Committee. I think they are trying to do so by inviting us to California. <br> <br> What we submitted in our substantive comments is that everything needs to be narrowed -- with as much as possible going back to the GNSO for a PDP. That's especially true for the URS, the new and proposed rapid takedown process. Much of that should go back to the GNSO for a full and thorough UDRP Review. Only the most eggregious cases, perhaps, should be subject to some rapid takedown process, subject to clear limits and easy appeals. But most of what is now defined as "URS" belongs in UDRP -- and absolutely should go through the GNSO and PDP!<br> <br> I think the Globally Protected Marks List should fall completely. I am happy to say that key registrars are with us!<br> <br> The IP Clearinghouse is a real problem for us. Konstantinos and I both are deeply concerned about it, but we are the only ones talking about it. We are the only ones raising the flag. We will give this one lots of time in the ICANN meeting. Further, it we can, we will work out a counterproposal - something where there will NOT be one big, monster database with undefined, unlimited, and unverified "intellectual property." The potential for current and future abuse is enormous. Even Stallman is with us!<br> <br> So we prepare for the ICANN meeting, which may take place as early as next week, and appreciate all of your ideas, input and feedback<br> Best,<br> Kathy & Konstantinos <br> (signing Konstantinos' name because we are working together closely. We/NCUC are so fortunate to have him, a leading academic in the field, and amazing for his breadth of knowledge and deep concern for the implications of what ICANN is creating!)<br> <br> <blockquote cite="mid:6E5FE632-80F4-48D6-A994-BE6BD0299976@ipjustice.org" type="cite">Kathy, <div><br> </div> <div>Congrats! This is terrific news and definitely a change in ICANN's position from Sydney. :-) Great big thanks to you and to Konstantinos for this change.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Are there any more details about what ICANN has in mind? I presume staff will be "fixing" the IRT Report? </div> <div><br> </div> <div>There is also some talk in the GNSO about forcing it to go back to a PDP since the report is really a policy creation and not implementation. I would prefer the 2nd option (PDP) if we had to choose between them because policy should come from the GNSO (and not staff), but I don't know how realistic it is that a PDP could be agreed upon by enough of the GNSO (and what would the board do with it?). </div> <div><br> </div> <div>We should discuss these options in more depth and I'd appreciate hearing what others think about how to proceed with the IRT Report now.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Thanks again, Kathy! We never could have come this far without you.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Best,</div> <div>Robin</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> <div> <div>On Jul 21, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Kathy Kleiman wrote:</div> <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote type="cite"> <div style="margin: 0px;">(If I don't have posting privileges to this list, could someone please send this email on to old and new friends. Tx.)</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px;">Dear Friends on the NCUC Executive Committee:</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px;">We did it! Our weeks/months of work against the IRT Report are bearing fruit – we have forced ICANN into action!</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px;">As you know, the trip to Sydney was grueling. I spent several weeks analyzing the 69-page IRT Report, and truly dissecting it! In Sydney and NYC, I led the IRT fight at the public meetings (and many private ones) – we were very vocal and active! We attracted the attention of ICANN and the press!</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px;">Now ICANN is ready to listen. Not just for 3 minutes in a public forum, but in detail, for a day, at their main offices in Marina Del Ray. ICANN is ready to fly us out! It is a huge step for the ICANN staff- to pay our way, to meet with us, and to listen to us in detail. But it is an opening of a door that was closed and locked before now -- we did it!</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px;">I cheer Chairman Robin for her support, thank my great partner Dr. Konstantinos Komaitis, and applaud you, the Executive Committee. Through your support, a small team stalled the IRT/Intellectual Property Constituency's world :-)!. We were strong, we were right and we were vocal in the right places.</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px;">Of course, the work really begins now – and we need to turn our detailed comments into specific language and strong counterproposals – language the Staff can incorporate and use to revise the IRT Report.</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px;">But I wanted to let you know where we are – and how far we have come!</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px;">Comments, feedback and suggestions welcome!</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px;">Best and great thanks,</div> <div style="margin: 0px;">Kathy</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px;">CC: Norbert Klein Dr. Milton Mueller, and Dr. Konstantinos Komaitis</div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> <div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"> <div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <br class="khtml-block-placeholder"> </div> <div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"> </div> <div>IP JUSTICE</div> <div>Robin Gross, Executive Director</div> <div>1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA</div> <div>p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451</div> <div>w: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ipjustice.org">http://www.ipjustice.org</a> e: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a></div> <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br> </div> </blockquote> <br> </div> </blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">***********************************************************</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">William J. 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