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<DIV><SPAN class=491551017-16072009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>This
is Jeff Neuman's response. although there are obviously disagreements, I think
it's good to engage in dialogue. </FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P><FONT size=2>Milton Mueller<BR>Professor, Syracuse University School of
Information Studies<BR>XS4All Professor, Delft University of
Technology<BR>------------------------------<BR>Internet Governance
Project:<BR><A
href="http://internetgovernance.org/">http://internetgovernance.org</A><BR></FONT></P>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Neuman, Jeff
[mailto:Jeff.Neuman@neustar.us] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:02
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Milton L Mueller; NCUC-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU; Richard
Tindal<BR><B>Cc:</B> Neuman, Jeff<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: IRT meeting
London<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks
Milton for forwarding this on to me. Milton, I am not on the NCUC
list, so can you please forward this to me. This is my personal view only
and not necessarily the view of my company or the IRT.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">It
seems like there may have been a misunderstanding and I would be happy to
explain from my point of view what happened.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">When
Konstantinos got up to the mike, there was a very long line of potential
speakers behind him. He began reading from a pre-prepared statement
criticizing the IRT and its report without pausing to give anyone an opportunity
to address any of the issues point by point. This in my mind demonstrated
a lack on Konstantinos’ part of wanting to engage in a dialogue, but rather just
get his statement out there. After reading the first couple of sentences,
and after I believe Nick Wood, the moderator, asked Konstantinos a question
about his comments, I did interject. I merely asked Konstantinos if he was
reading the exact same statement that Kathy read into the record in NY.
Konstantinos nodded yes. At that point, I did not ask him to speed up or
stop talking, but rather asked if he could summarize the points, rather than
reading the long pre-prepared statement. This would not only cut
down the time of the statement (to ensure everyone got their opportunity to
speak), but allow us to ask questions, which we did.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Konstantinos
also neglected to include in his report back that I too engaged him in a
dialogue about the notion of multiple clearinghouses. In fact, I explained
exactly the rationale which the IRT used in its report and why on balance we did
not recommend having multiple clearinghouses for the first round of TLDs.
I explained to Konstantinos that since registries would have to technically
interact with all clearinghouses, a new protocol may have to be developed to
allow for that exchange of information from multiple providers. After all,
a brand owner would only go to one clearinghouse, but the registry would have to
interact with them all (after first figuring out which clearinghouse contained
the data that the brand owner used). So, in essence, the registry would
have to get registration data from a registrar and either collect additional
information as to which clearinghouse a brand owner used or do a look up to get
that information. In either case, this may be doing something that is not
currently provided for the EPP protocol. It would require either an update
to EPP or the development of such a new protocol. From my perspective, this
would not only take a long time, but would also have to go through a
technical standards process review. The IRT believed that this would
inevitably delay the new TLD process (something that the NCUC does not want to
see, at least according to its public statements). Konstantinos nodded as
if to understand and asked why we did not make that more clear in the report
(which I believe is a valid point). We could have made this more
clear.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">While
I am commenting on the note below, let me also make the following points (which
you can all hear by listening to the recording):<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph
style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">1.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> I
do not believe the IRT toned down its presentation at all. It was mostly a
different panel, with persons that have different styles.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoListParagraph
style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">2.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><![endif]><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">If
you look at Richard Tindal’s presentation, you will see that Demand Media
actually supports the majority of the recommendations in their entirety (4 of
the 7), supports the concepts of 2 others (including the URS) with some
modifications, and only really opposes the GPML. I have included Richard
on this string to correct me if I am misstating (but I am actually reading the
slide now).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">So
that’s my side. All I can do is give you an insight into what I was
thinking when I made the statement I did. You all in turn can interpret as
you see fit. Konstantinos – I know you don’t know me well, and you
probably view my as just another IP attorney defending the report, but I believe
others in the NCUC know me (as Milton does). Not only do I always listen
to the NCUC, but I try my best to do what is right for the Internet community
(especially with my work in the IRT). I apologize if you took my statement
as something it was not intended to be. I hope this
helps.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR>Thanks
for reading and I would be happy to answer any questions from my own
perspective.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">P.S.
– I did want to explain these points at the NCUC-sponsored breakfast in NY to
Kathy, but although I rsvp’d wanting to go, I was told by Kathy that I would not
be able to do so. But we can go into that at a later
time.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR>Best
regards, <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-TOP: 6pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #632423; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Jeffrey
J. Neuman, Esq</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">.</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">:</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #3366ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000066; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">NeuStar,
Inc.</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #3366ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Vice
President, Law & Policy</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Milton L Mueller
[mailto:mueller@syr.edu] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:58
AM<BR><B>To:</B> NCUC-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<BR><B>Cc:</B> Neuman,
Jeff<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: IRT meeting London<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Konstantinos</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Very
glad you could show up there, and thanks for making our views known.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I am
really disappointed to hear that Jeff Neuman, who I always thought was a
fair-minded person, interrupted and attempted to pre-empt your statement on the
completely bogus grounds that he had heard it before. I've copied him on this
message because I want to hear his side of the story. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Perhaps
Jeff needs to be reminded that it's the public that supposed to be listening to
and considering this proposal, not the usual ICANN insiders, and the fact that
he heard it before doesn't mean anything. Indeed, if "we've heard this before"
was a valid reason to try to shut someone up, then maybe the whole IRT panel
should have been asked to shut up, because we've been hearing the same
stuff from them for ten years. It's really bad form but hey, I guess
when policy proposals can't stand on the merits you have to try to make their
critics look bad. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Milton Mueller<BR>Professor, Syracuse
University School of Information Studies<BR>XS4All Professor, Delft University
of Technology<BR>------------------------------<BR>Internet Governance
Project:<BR><A
href="http://internetgovernance.org/">http://internetgovernance.org</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
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<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Non-Commercial
User Constituency [mailto:NCUC-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Konstantinos Komaitis<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:31
AM<BR><B>To:</B> NCUC-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B>
[NCUC-DISCUSS] IRT meeting London</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Dear
all,<BR><BR>Just back from the IRT meeting in London and let me share briefly
with you what happened (very dizzy after so many hours on the
train).<BR><BR>As in NY, the whole morning was spent at presentations by the
IRT panel, WIPO, ICANN and some individuals; that took us to lunch and after
that the panel gave the floor for statements/questions.<BR><BR>Presentations:
the IRT panel seemed to be toning down a bit and I think that had to do with
the reaction they received in NY. They said of course the same things over and
over again and how great the report is, but they made it clear that this
report does not represent the views of ICANN (implying that we should not
target ICANN) and that also we need to remember the short time-frame within
which the team operated.<BR>Richard Tindal of Demand Media spoke against most
of the report. So did, Paul Keating, who focused on the URS and slammed it
down.<BR><BR>Then the statements came. Many of the people who grabbed the
microphone were in favour of the report – the Danish law society, Nestle, some
Registrars, etc. Nothing surprising there; what was surprising – to me at
least – was the reaction that I received during our statement statement. I was
abruptly interrupted by Jeff Neuman, who asked whether it was necessary to
read the NCUC statement, since it was along the same lines as Kathy’s in New
York. Of course, I continued reading the statement telling Jeff that the panel
might be the same as in NY but the audience is not; more questions came from
the ICANN staff as well as from Fabricio Vayra about our statement (mainly
about the IP Clearinghouse and GPML). After many interruptions, I finally
managed to get through the whole thing. <BR><BR>Rebecca gave a great statement
as did some other people (John Levine for instance). Overall, I realized that
the IRT team is at a great advantage. Hearing them speaking, I though that if
I didn’t know any better, I would think that they are doing a great job under
difficult circumstances. That is how the public saw it at least. We need to
continue with this fight and we need to get as many voices as possible. In
London there were not enough and the IRT is gaining ground. <BR><BR>The good
news is that I was approached by a reporter who wants to do a piece on it for
the forthcoming issue of World Trademark Review (mainly targeting trademark
lawyers) and I had a brief exchange of email with a guy from the economist who
also showed some interest. I will let you know about these two
things.<BR><BR>Thank
you.<BR><BR>Best<BR>Konstantinos<BR><BR>Statement:<BR><BR>Good afternoon. My
name is Konstantinos Komaitis and I am here both in my capacity as an academic
with research experience in domain name regulation and as a member of ICANN’s
Non-Commercial User Constituency. Above all, however, I am here as a
registrant who has serious concerns about this report and how it makes all
non-commercial users look bad.<BR><BR>Here are in brief our concerns:<BR>IP
Clearinghouse: it falls outside the scope and mission of ICANN. Putting ICANN
in charge of this massive database, transmogrifies and gives privileges to
ICANN currently enjoyed by national trademark offices. It is of great concern
that in the years to come this database could be abused and/or misused against
future domain name registrants. The idea is valuable but its presentation is
problematic. Over the past ten years, the market has shown that it can provide
solutions – and this is one need that we can trust the market to
meet.<BR>GPML: it changes the face of traditional trademark law. Currently,
there is no international consensus on which marks are worthy of global
protection and WIPO has refrained from producing such list. The list seeks to
protect marks not according to their associated goodwill, as has always been
the case in trademark law, but merely as strings of characters regardless of
use or relevance. This is not what trademark law is about.<BR>URS: is a
dangerous provision and can set a treacherous precedent. It should be expected
that the URS will replace the UDRP with a much faster, cheaper and
fundamentally unfair process. Similar to the current UDRP culture, the URS is
a process open to abuse and procedural injustice. The conceptual basis and the
language of the URS is reminiscent to the conceptual basis and language of the
UDRP – so why not amend the existing regime?<BR>We also strongly oppose the
thick WHOIS and the post-delegation dispute mechanism, but I am running out of
time.<BR>The IRT report states: “The recommendation should protect the
existing rights of trademark owners, but neither expand those rights nor
create additional legal rights”. The IRT report does not conform with this; it
fails to see trademarks as limited rights as it fails to incentivize
registrants. On the contrary, it expands the rights of trademark owners beyond
their intended purpose. <BR>Thank you.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR> <BR><BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR>-- <BR>Dr.
Konstantinos Komaitis,<BR>Lecturer in Law,<BR>GigaNet Membership
Chair,<BR>University of Strathclyde,<BR>The Lord Hope Building,<BR>141 St.
James Road,<BR>Glasgow, G4 0LT,<BR>UK<BR>tel: +44 (0)141 548 4306<BR>email: <A
href="k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk">k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>