It may help to stress SG's concerns that this problem would probably have been twice unnecessary distracting had the proposed Consumer Constituency been formalised without the requisite bottom-up support of the entire non commercial stakeholder group. <br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Milton L Mueller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Exactly right, Bill. We have an airtight case on the merits, so let's make sure we lead with that in any and all discussions with the Board. You might also.mention that I proposed to send Amber but she was
unable to go. <br>
The Board members who will listen need to be firmly warned about the illegitimacy of them taking sides among viewpoints or factions in SGs.
<br>
<br>
<font color="#cc0000">Milton Mueller<br>
</font><font color="#cc0000">Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
</font></div>
<br>
<br>
-----Original message-----<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><div class="im">
<div style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><b>From: </b>William Drake <<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>><b><br>
To: </b>Konstantinos Komaitis <<a href="mailto:k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk" target="_blank">k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk</a>><b><br>
Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:pc-ncuc@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">pc-ncuc@ipjustice.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:pc-ncuc@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">pc-ncuc@ipjustice.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:EC-NCUC@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">EC-NCUC@ipjustice.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:ec-ncuc@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">ec-ncuc@ipjustice.org</a>><b><br>
Sent: </b>Sat, Oct 15, 2011 09:48:34 GMT+00:00<b><br>
Subject: </b>Re: [Pc-ncuc] FW: NPOC issues<br>
<br>
</div>
</div><div>
<div><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
<div><div class="im">let me make sure i understand cuz i don't recall what happened. was it that the EC reallocated the Rafik and Rosemary support to Robin and Avri, rather than giving it to Alain, who has no defined role? cuz a strong case can obviously
be made that priority should go to the incoming and outgoing SG chairs who have to run meetings and otherwise be around.
<br>
<br>
Debby is going to Dakar, right? so they already had representation there?<br>
<br>
how do you make the point without getting the board involved? you mean privately, off line?<br>
<br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
On Oct 15, 2011, at 11:24 AM, Konstantinos Komaitis wrote:<br>
<br>
> FYI - we do have a problem with this and NCUC should really make a point, I believe, about the issue of Debbie going directly the Board. In Dakar I will seek to make sure that the Board is not getting involved with internal issues of NCSG or when for instance
NPOC feels that they are being mistreated.<br>
> <br>
> KK<br>
> <br>
> From: Konstantinos Komaitis <<a href="mailto:k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk" target="_blank">k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk" target="_blank">k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk</a>>><br>
> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 10:19:22 +0100<br>
> To: Steve Crocker <<a href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com" target="_blank">steve@shinkuro.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com" target="_blank">steve@shinkuro.com</a>>>, "Avri org>" <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>>><br>
> Cc: Robin Gross <<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a>>>, Diane Schroeder <<a href="mailto:diane.schroeder@icann.org" target="_blank">diane.schroeder@icann.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:diane.schroeder@icann.org" target="_blank">diane.schroeder@icann.org</a>>>, Bruce Tonkin <<a href="mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au" target="_blank">Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au" target="_blank">Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au</a>>>, Bill Graham <<a href="mailto:likeanarrow@gmail.com" target="_blank">likeanarrow@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:likeanarrow@gmail.com" target="_blank">likeanarrow@gmail.com</a>>>,
John Jeffrey <<a href="mailto:john.jeffrey@icann.org" target="_blank">john.jeffrey@icann.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:john.jeffrey@icann.org" target="_blank">john.jeffrey@icann.org</a>>>, David Olive <<a href="mailto:David.Olive@icann.org" target="_blank">David.Olive@icann.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:David.Olive@icann.org" target="_blank">David.Olive@icann.org</a>>>, NCUC/NCSG <<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@n4c.eu" target="_blank">ncsg-ec@n4c.eu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@n4c.eu" target="_blank">ncsg-ec@n4c.eu</a>>><br>
> Subject: Re: NPOC issues<br>
> <br>
> Dear Steve,<br>
> <br>
> Thank you very much for informing us about this issue. I am a bit puzzled (and concerned) as to why Debbie chose this route on an issue that is purely internal to NCSG, however, as Avri says, it is rather difficult to answer to any of this until I have the
chance to read the actual complaint. The only thing I would like to say at this stage is that the decision concerning the re-allocation of travel funds was not taken in an arbitrary manner or in a way that sought to undermine the participation of NPOC.<br>
> <br>
> I am looking forward to our discussions in Dakar so that this issue can be resolved.<br>
> <br>
> Thank you<br>
> <br>
> Konstantinos<br>
> <br>
> From: Steve Crocker <<a href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com" target="_blank">steve@shinkuro.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com" target="_blank">steve@shinkuro.com</a>>><br>
> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 19:53:42 +0100<br>
> To: "Avri org>" <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>>><br>
> Cc: Robin Gross <<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a>>>, Diane Schroeder <<a href="mailto:diane.schroeder@icann.org" target="_blank">diane.schroeder@icann.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:diane.schroeder@icann.org" target="_blank">diane.schroeder@icann.org</a>>>, Bruce Tonkin <<a href="mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au" target="_blank">Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au" target="_blank">Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au</a>>>, Bill Graham <<a href="mailto:likeanarrow@gmail.com" target="_blank">likeanarrow@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:likeanarrow@gmail.com" target="_blank">likeanarrow@gmail.com</a>>>,
John Jeffrey <<a href="mailto:john.jeffrey@icann.org" target="_blank">john.jeffrey@icann.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:john.jeffrey@icann.org" target="_blank">john.jeffrey@icann.org</a>>>, David Olive <<a href="mailto:David.Olive@icann.org" target="_blank">David.Olive@icann.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:David.Olive@icann.org" target="_blank">David.Olive@icann.org</a>>>, Konstantinos Komaitis <<a href="mailto:k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk" target="_blank">k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk" target="_blank">k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk</a>>>, NCUC/NCSG <<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@n4c.eu" target="_blank">ncsg-ec@n4c.eu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@n4c.eu" target="_blank">ncsg-ec@n4c.eu</a>>><br>
> Subject: Re: NPOC issues<br>
> <br>
> Avri,<br>
> <br>
> Thanks. I too am sensitive to going outside of channels. I look forward to a full airing.<br>
> <br>
> Steve<br>
> <br>
> Sent from my iPhone<br>
> <br>
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hi Steve,<br>
> I think it is quite kind of you to have arranged Alain's passage to Dakar.<br>
> As for the whole story, until such time as Debby's charges are made public, it is difficult for anyone to respond to them. I do wish she had copied the NCSG and its executive committee, in her complaint. Who knows, perhaps it might have been taken care
of without secret escalation.<br>
> I have copied Konstantinos, the chair of the NCUC on this, as one of the allocations was made by the NCUC and not by the NCSG, so that he can prepare himself to answer the accusations with the rest of us. I have also copied the NCSG Executive Committee as
this seems something they should be informed of.<br>
> Thanks so much for your attention to his matter.<br>
> avri<br>
> On 14 Oct 2011, at 14:28, Steve Crocker wrote:<br>
> Thanks. I too look forward to seeing full story.<br>
> See you in Dakar.<br>
> Steve<br>
> Sent from my iPhone<br>
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:58 PM, Robin Gross <<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
> I'm fairly certain this "complaint" is entirely unfounded and I would like to see a copy of it.<br>
> Thank you,<br>
> Robin<br>
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 10:33 AM, Steve Crocker wrote:<br>
> Avri and Robin,<br>
> I guess there was some confusion about the routing of Debbie Hughes' letter, and I apologize for not getting the loop closed on our side. That said, the NPOC seems pretty exercised, and I expect their complaints will need some attention. To assist them,
I've agreed to find support so Alain can come to Dakar.<br>
> I expect Debbie will be providing more information shortly.<br>
> I'm not yet certain where their complaints should be dealt with. My focus at the moment is simply to make sure this gets sorted out properly.<br>
> If I've left out others who should be in the loop, please include them.<br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Steve<br>
> Sent from my iPhone<br>
> IP JUSTICE<br>
> Robin Gross, Executive Director<br>
> 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA<br>
> p: <a href="tel:%2B1-415-553-6261" value="+14155536261" target="_blank">+1-415-553-6261</a> f: <a href="tel:%2B1-415-462-6451" value="+14154626451" target="_blank">+1-415-462-6451</a><br>
> w: <a href="http://www.ipjustice.org" target="_blank">http://www.ipjustice.org</a> e: <a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a><<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">mailto:robin@ipjustice.org</a>><br>
> <br>
> <br>
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